Ronin m. What do you guys think for aerial?

maxwelltub

maxwelltub

Member
Even fast forward accelerating will cause roll drift. If you so really slow movements won't be as bad. Everything looks good its best in the demo videos. I don't think these other options hold a candle to the movi and the support you get from freefly
 

econfly

econfly

Member
maxwelltub said:
Think about a cup of water that you slide quickly across a table. The inertia causes it to loss a steady horizon. Gps helps anticipate that movement and counter it before it's a problem. That's my understanding, but even with gps it's still an issue sometimes. It's more of an issue on multitrotors because of fast flight in many orientations. I used a defy once on the ground and hardly held together. I mean literally the top handle fell off. I'm on the way to NAB now so will report back tomorrow. In my personal experience movi is the best option by far, short of having a machine shop and good engineering skills.
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The MŌVI M5 is awesome. I actually have one but am very addicted to it on the ground. Something close dedicated to a big multi but for less money is appealing, but if the quality isn't there it just won't be worth it.

The Defy G2X does have appeal. Would really like to get my hands on one to test it out.

DJI has its plusses and minuses, support can take forever, and getting parts is a real problem -- especially for a new product. But, their build quality in recent products is very very good. I wonder if this Ronin-M might be a winner. Has anyone seen a price?
 

maxwelltub

maxwelltub

Member
Ronin M - 5lbs
Movi M5- 4.75

Ronin Batteries- 200 - Can't use your own lipo
Movi Battery- 100 - and can use your own lipo

Ronin Payload -8lbs
Movi Payload - 5lbs

Ronin - $2000 or less
Movi - $4000

Other note worthy features. Movi has full cage which is way better then single point of contact. Ronin has much better battery life but you are locked into their battery, not the same as the original ronin. Both have good app support. Freefly wins on support in my experience. Movi has gps which makes it better for multirotors. Movi comes with two batteries and a charger, although their batteries will work on any lipo charger with the right plug, Ronin comes with one battery, cant use any other charger. Traditionally you have had to send your dji stuff away to get it fixed and that can be a nightmare. Freefly was started and is run by people who are some of the best at what their customers do, which makes them infinity more in touch with a pro aerial market, DJI primarily caters toward first time users now a days

I would say in my opinion Ronin is better for ground work if you are not a RC person and don't want to think about batteries or controllers or any customization. Movi is better for the air for a couple reasons, such as battery type and having two points of contact on the camera but mainly because of the gps.
 

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sk8brd

Member
one lens one cam is no longer useful for in regards to zen line nor is 0 after sale support. i'm going movi m5 and see how it goes. been down the dji route since forever ..their gimbals never worked right for me..all defective, bricked after software update, twitched, wouldn't initialize, crazy roll drift in 2nd op mode etc...i'm done with all of that now...there are good ones out there but i never got one.
 
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Carapau

Carapau

Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
The reason you need GPS is all to do with gravity. A gimbal effectively uses gravity so that it knows which way it is pointing and it does this through accelerometers. The problem is that acceleration and gravity are indistinguishable in terms of what the gimbal senses (think of G force for acceleration). If however, the gimbal knows how quickly it is accelerating it can mathematically cancel this vector out and keep the gimbal locked.
 

S

SamurAchzar

Member
Isn't the Defy G2X just another Alexmos based gimbal?

Anyway aerial stabilization is vastly different to handheld stabilization (something we've been saying for long and people are learning the hard way). Most manufacturers focus on handheld because its a vastly bigger market and much simpler to do (no high frequency disturbance, no horizon issues etc).
I know a DYS 5D with Phobotic controller has been providing very good results, eclipsing the MoVI and Z15. We have customers running at 65mm on this with completely usable footage, even without post stab.

I'd love to see Gremsy video in the air. I know the Ronin doesn't work for, nor is advertised for, aerial use (and WHY would you fly something that heavy anyway?). The Ronin-M promo video was horribly bad (on handheld), but I'm sure its just a firmware thing they'll fix later. Freefly make solid gimbals, and are probably the only viable RTF option right now if you want to spend the money; and if you want to get something kickass for about $1000, then go with the DYS 5D and the Phobotic controller. In my opinion it can match - if not outperform - the M5, and offer much more adjustability on the way.
 

econfly

econfly

Member
SamurAchzar said:
Isn't the Defy G2X just another Alexmos based gimbal?

Anyway aerial stabilization is vastly different to handheld stabilization (something we've been saying for long and people are learning the hard way). Most manufacturers focus on handheld because its a vastly bigger market and much simpler to do (no high frequency disturbance, no horizon issues etc).
I know a DYS 5D with Phobotic controller has been providing very good results, eclipsing the MoVI and Z15. We have customers running at 65mm on this with completely usable footage, even without post stab.

I'd love to see Gremsy video in the air. I know the Ronin doesn't work for, nor is advertised for, aerial use (and WHY would you fly something that heavy anyway?). The Ronin-M promo video was horribly bad (on handheld), but I'm sure its just a firmware thing they'll fix later. Freefly make solid gimbals, and are probably the only viable RTF option right now if you want to spend the money; and if you want to get something kickass for about $1000, then go with the DYS 5D and the Phobotic controller. In my opinion it can match - if not outperform - the M5, and offer much more adjustability on the way.
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Very helpful -- thanks. I don't know what Defy is using for a controller, but if it is stock Alexmos then my interest just fell substantially. Maybe it's somehow modified for easier tuning, etc. Their videos seem to indicate so, but there is a difference between hiding complexity and improving things so the complexity is no longer an issue.

Just from a quick look the DYS 5D is not what I have in mind. I'm looking for simple to balance, no tools required, and easy use out of the box. But, if you are seeing better than MŌVI M5 and better than Z-15 results that is tremendously impressive (the M5 just works, and the big Zens, when they work, are very very good), so maybe I can reconsider things. What's your take on this GPS discussion?
 

Pumpkinguy

Pumpkinguy

Member
I'm with you Econ. I don't want to use hex keys to set up the gimbal. My opinion is they will eventually wear the aluminum threads specially if you don't use a torque wrench. I'd much rather have a tooless clamping system. For ease of use and longevity.
 

econfly

econfly

Member
The other issue is single tube construction. The wonderful thing about the M5 and many newer designs is double tube / channel construction so you can't possibly get an axis out of alignment and you are not fiddling with two variables at the same time (moving along a tube and rotating around it all at once). It looks like the G2X does have a single tube roll connection, which is a negative. The Ronin-M appears to have adjustment channels which keeps things aligned. I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but the MŌVI M5 has shown us how elegant and simple adjustment can be.

The big Zens, being targeted to a single camera/lens are not intended to be adjusted, though they can benefit from slight tweaking if needed. However, as fast as this industry moves I am not interested any longer in investing in a gimbal that limits me to a particular camera/lens.
 
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sk8brd

Member
not my video's but a good comparison. hope authors don't mind me posting. one is a member on here i believe. pretty sure this is both raw. you can usually tell if post stab was used by slight warping of elements in the frame- i don't see it but maybe i'm wrong..

the zen behaves best in a locked in hover, when actually flying its pretty close. there is an ever slightly roll movement on the movi's I've seen over the years not sure if its tuning thing but in the end its just more useful for many not being restricted. at some point good has to be good enough or you will never get anything done. a fully functioning zen on a good machine with vibes controlled is still the best from what I've seen out of anything out there but too limiting for some and if you can get a "good one" is still a very common theme.

movi m5-

zen-
 

jfro

jfro

Aerial Fun
I'm using the DYS 5d gimbal w/ gh3/ gh4 & Centerpiece and have pretty good luck with it. My only complaint is an occasional blip on the horizon.

I keep a 2.5 and 2.0o driver handy. I find adjustments to be very quick and simple. I haven't stripped any heads or treads, so no issue so far. I'd love a FreeFly M5 over what I have, but the price difference would have to be much less.

I used 60-80t motors instead of the normal 5208 and think this has been a major help.
 

econfly

econfly

Member
Here is what Freefly has to say about GPS:

DRIFT FREE HORIZON
The control algorithms developed for the MōVI utilize a very high accuracy GPS. This GPS allows for acceleration correction when the gimbal is used outdoors and has a GPS signal. This feature is useful when used on cars and helicopters where sustained extreme accelerational forces can cause non-GPS aided systems to drift.
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C

Cameraj

Member
econfly said:
Very helpful -- thanks. I don't know what Defy is using for a controller, but if it is stock Alexmos then my interest just fell substantially. Maybe it's somehow modified for easier tuning, etc. Their videos seem to indicate so, but there is a difference between hiding complexity and improving things so the complexity is no longer an issue.

Just from a quick look the DYS 5D is not what I have in mind. I'm looking for simple to balance, no tools required, and easy use out of the box. But, if you are seeing better than MŌVI M5 and better than Z-15 results that is tremendously impressive (the M5 just works, and the big Zens, when they work, are very very good), so maybe I can reconsider things. What's your take on this GPS discussion?
Click to expand...
Would love to see the DYS take down the Movi , know way it will
 

S

SamurAchzar

Member
Jim, from what I see I'm really not sure the Movi would outperform your setup. The video posted shows it won't (although can't really compare different setups, the Movi has pretty minimal settings anyway). The Movi video was filmed with what appears to be a 12mm lens.

Check this out, with the CP on 35mm:

In this video the CPHV absolutely murders the Movi.

I know I've been saying it for some time but we have a firmware update that really addresses the horizon thing in a fundamental way no one else does today. It deals with both dynamic errors (acceleration) and static errors (calibration) in the most comprehensive way possible. After that, the CP would really be up there in horizon performance. We've worked in the research domain for a long time and the features make it in groups into the production firmware (just a couple of weeks ago we released 1333 which was a massive improvement, then 1334 for bugfixes, now 1335 is already in tester hands with features like Bluetooth on the CPHV and more performance gains).

We plan to keep a steady rate of firmware versions.

We feel like we have the performance edge in aerial gimbals today over anyone else, when you also account for the adjustability/diagnostics/support system, nothing can touch the CP. The main problem we're facing is the variance in gimbal mechanics and this is a huge pain point that negatively inflicts us many times. We try to do what we can to help, bnt we know we can't get to the 100% satisfaction rate that we want.
 

Queena Allen

Queena Allen

Capture the world, recording life!
I think DJI Phantom3 which already launched before NAB show of this year is much more suitable for aerial shooting.
 


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sk8brd

Member
100mm (full frame) even longer on the blackmagic- movi ---not my vid..no post stab acording to creator. pretty impressive..
 
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