fltundra
Member
You will not get those right with a magnetic balancer. Get the Du-bro. I have at least 2-3 hours in each one of my t-motor cf's to get them perfect, and i am only running 14's.
XAircraft Interpreting Black Box Data
- Thread starter Av8Chuck
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fltundra
Member
Compare mine to yours and you will see what I'm talking about. This is hovering in a 2-3 mph wind.
When it's completely calm, the graphs are even tighter and vibs lower.
View attachment 25292 View attachment 25293
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Hello FlTundra,
I do know what you are talking about, that is why I am asking for some interpretation, I want mine to look like yours, by the way they look pretty nice, I want to tune mine to make them look better. I am not sure if the problem is from the gains or if I have a problem with an ESC or motor, I am not sure how to interpret a bad efficiency not necessary a full failure of an ESC or motor. I want to rule out that something is not working properly. If components look good, we can move on to the gains, any ideas on which gains to tune?
I appreciate your help.
If someone else has some input it is greatly appreciated, please feel free to pitch in... here are my logs:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_06_26_143507.500_59.11.02.29
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_06_26_143507.500_59.12.04.14
Regards
I do know what you are talking about, that is why I am asking for some interpretation, I want mine to look like yours, by the way they look pretty nice, I want to tune mine to make them look better. I am not sure if the problem is from the gains or if I have a problem with an ESC or motor, I am not sure how to interpret a bad efficiency not necessary a full failure of an ESC or motor. I want to rule out that something is not working properly. If components look good, we can move on to the gains, any ideas on which gains to tune?
I appreciate your help.
If someone else has some input it is greatly appreciated, please feel free to pitch in... here are my logs:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_06_26_143507.500_59.11.02.29
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_06_26_143507.500_59.12.04.14
Regards
fltundra
Member
Maybe if you post some pics and a list of the components your using , that would help.
Without knowing anything else have you tried 16's to see if the high disc loading is an issue with the 17's?
Hello FLtundra,
Sorry for the late reply, I was traveling and could not get back to some "quad action"…..I have been doing some new tests, already double checked setup, props balance, and also I have another smaller quad, having same issues, I think that my problem is the KDE ESC that it is not syncing properly with SuperX, what other ESC do you recommend to use with KDE motors and SuperX?
Thanks
Sorry for the late reply, I was traveling and could not get back to some "quad action"…..I have been doing some new tests, already double checked setup, props balance, and also I have another smaller quad, having same issues, I think that my problem is the KDE ESC that it is not syncing properly with SuperX, what other ESC do you recommend to use with KDE motors and SuperX?
Thanks
fltundra
Member
G4d,
Don't change your esc's quiet yet. You need to work on balancing those props better, and recheck motor alignment.
Symptoms your talking about are not related to the esc's. There are many using KDE esc's with the X with no probs.
I use the Castle MR 35 w/kde 515kv. I personally like the castle's, because I can make changes to the settings and have them the way I want.
Don't change your esc's quiet yet. You need to work on balancing those props better, and recheck motor alignment.
Symptoms your talking about are not related to the esc's. There are many using KDE esc's with the X with no probs.
I use the Castle MR 35 w/kde 515kv. I personally like the castle's, because I can make changes to the settings and have them the way I want.
Hello Guys,
I did some testing, and I need some advise,
This is a smaller quad that I have, I have not yet done test with the big quad, but I will like to get this one tuned first, still working on the big one….
This is a X650 with SuperX, KDE 2814-775 with KDE ESC 35, 13x5 T-motor prop.
I did the ESC firmware update using the DMA device to latest firmware and it improved very much, I used the settings advised by Patrick at KDE.
My gains are:
Roll 0.8
Pitch 0.8
Yaw 0.8
Height 1.0
the G-knob is at -3 (Futaba Radio)
I still have some tuning to do, please advise, this is my log:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_08_29_190323.000_19.4.02.05
As you can see I still have some vibrations. I appreciate all your advise.
Thanks guys !!
In case you can't see the logs, here are some pics…
I did some testing, and I need some advise,
This is a smaller quad that I have, I have not yet done test with the big quad, but I will like to get this one tuned first, still working on the big one….
This is a X650 with SuperX, KDE 2814-775 with KDE ESC 35, 13x5 T-motor prop.
I did the ESC firmware update using the DMA device to latest firmware and it improved very much, I used the settings advised by Patrick at KDE.
My gains are:
Roll 0.8
Pitch 0.8
Yaw 0.8
Height 1.0
the G-knob is at -3 (Futaba Radio)
I still have some tuning to do, please advise, this is my log:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_08_29_190323.000_19.4.02.05
As you can see I still have some vibrations. I appreciate all your advise.
Thanks guys !!
In case you can't see the logs, here are some pics…
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
fltundra
Member
You need to get you center de-tent on the gain knob a 20% and work on getting those props better balanced after you realign the motors.
Your total throw should be +30 to -30 on the gain ch. Once you get them balanced, your going to want to raise the gains a little. Mainly roll and pitch.
Your total throw should be +30 to -30 on the gain ch. Once you get them balanced, your going to want to raise the gains a little. Mainly roll and pitch.
SamaraMedia
Active Member
fltundra, how are adjusting your gain knob to +20 at center? I'm using the sub-trim channel and has it at +20 before changing my overall gains
fltundra
Member
Changed channel center to 1575u.
Hello Fltundra,
Thanks for your advise, the props are well balanced I did make sure of that before flying, however I will double check just to make sure…. The motor mount level I did not checked, I guess I thrusted Xaircraft frame to be well align, I will check motor alignment and let you know.
With the X650 Frame everything comes pinned, so it is a bit different from Kloner's quad, but I will check alignment.
Mounting the Flight Controller:
- I did not mentioned that I mounted the FC using double sided 3M VHB tape, I overlooked this, I am not sure if this could cause some vibration since it is not isolating vibrations, perhaps I should use a dampening foam, what do you use to mount FC?
In regards of the KDE ESC's programming:
- I adjusted the S.R. BRAKING ACTIVATION to "PRECISION", I was told by KDE that this will immediately enable the braking to the highest-level (maximum control of acceleration and deceleration). It will make the multi-rotor feel "robotic", meaning very locked-in, and has direct-control to the motor at the fastest response. This is the standard setting for the FPV Racing, where they want maximum performance and control, so this will increase the resolution of the flight-controller to the motors.
- I could try the "DYNAMIC" Braking Activation for a "less robotic feel".
I will increase pitch and roll gains as you suggested, what transmitter are you using?… I am using a Futaba so I am not sure how to know if the center is at 1575u…. how can I check this? in Futaba is +20 or -20?
Thanks again!!
Thanks for your advise, the props are well balanced I did make sure of that before flying, however I will double check just to make sure…. The motor mount level I did not checked, I guess I thrusted Xaircraft frame to be well align, I will check motor alignment and let you know.
With the X650 Frame everything comes pinned, so it is a bit different from Kloner's quad, but I will check alignment.
Mounting the Flight Controller:
- I did not mentioned that I mounted the FC using double sided 3M VHB tape, I overlooked this, I am not sure if this could cause some vibration since it is not isolating vibrations, perhaps I should use a dampening foam, what do you use to mount FC?
In regards of the KDE ESC's programming:
- I adjusted the S.R. BRAKING ACTIVATION to "PRECISION", I was told by KDE that this will immediately enable the braking to the highest-level (maximum control of acceleration and deceleration). It will make the multi-rotor feel "robotic", meaning very locked-in, and has direct-control to the motor at the fastest response. This is the standard setting for the FPV Racing, where they want maximum performance and control, so this will increase the resolution of the flight-controller to the motors.
- I could try the "DYNAMIC" Braking Activation for a "less robotic feel".
I will increase pitch and roll gains as you suggested, what transmitter are you using?… I am using a Futaba so I am not sure how to know if the center is at 1575u…. how can I check this? in Futaba is +20 or -20?
Thanks again!!
SamaraMedia
Active Member
fltundra
Member
I would leave the settings default on the esc's until you get everything else right. As far as the 3m vhb, it's not your vibration problem, it's the props.
Thanks Fltundra,
I will do some test with default settings on the ESCs. About the props I did check balance and they are well balanced, I checked with two balancers and they are both showing balanced props, so I am ruling out a prop balance problem, I already re-checked them. I will do a motor alignment check and let you know.
Thanks again.
I will do some test with default settings on the ESCs. About the props I did check balance and they are well balanced, I checked with two balancers and they are both showing balanced props, so I am ruling out a prop balance problem, I already re-checked them. I will do a motor alignment check and let you know.
Thanks again.
Hello Guys,
I did some new flights, here is the result…
I double checked props and they were very well balanced, then I checked motor alignment as Kloners video, at first site they all looked aligned, but for my frame I tough that it was not so precise, so I did a 4 point calibration using an inclinometer and I found out that I had one motor slightly bad aligned, about 2 to 2.5 degrees the problem was that this 2 degrees where to the opposite direction, like -2 degrees when other motors were like +0.5, I guess if the error was to the same direction like +2.5 degrees it would probably vibrate less… anyway, I re-aligned motors and also I reprogrammed the ESC to Dynamic Braking, and now vibration is under 0.5, so I guess that this is more reasonable, I know I can still fine tune the gains, but right now it feels a lot better. Also today was a bit windy so I didn't wanted to mess with the gains, I went with the rule (if it is working, don't touch it).
I believe that main problem was the motor alignment, but also updating the firmware and using a dynamic braking helped a lot to get a smoother feel of the flight. I didn't tough that the SuperX was this sensitive, now I know to consider motor alignment as a priority.
Here are a couple of logs from todays flight, please let me know what do you think I can fine tune. I am however pleased with the result and I really appreciate all your input and support. I hope I can help you guys as you helped me, thanks again!!
Todays logs:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_21.1.03.13
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_20.1.05.58
If you want to compare with the flight before motor alignment and Dynamic braking, here is the log from before:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_19.4.02.05
I did some new flights, here is the result…
I double checked props and they were very well balanced, then I checked motor alignment as Kloners video, at first site they all looked aligned, but for my frame I tough that it was not so precise, so I did a 4 point calibration using an inclinometer and I found out that I had one motor slightly bad aligned, about 2 to 2.5 degrees the problem was that this 2 degrees where to the opposite direction, like -2 degrees when other motors were like +0.5, I guess if the error was to the same direction like +2.5 degrees it would probably vibrate less… anyway, I re-aligned motors and also I reprogrammed the ESC to Dynamic Braking, and now vibration is under 0.5, so I guess that this is more reasonable, I know I can still fine tune the gains, but right now it feels a lot better. Also today was a bit windy so I didn't wanted to mess with the gains, I went with the rule (if it is working, don't touch it).
I believe that main problem was the motor alignment, but also updating the firmware and using a dynamic braking helped a lot to get a smoother feel of the flight. I didn't tough that the SuperX was this sensitive, now I know to consider motor alignment as a priority.
Here are a couple of logs from todays flight, please let me know what do you think I can fine tune. I am however pleased with the result and I really appreciate all your input and support. I hope I can help you guys as you helped me, thanks again!!
Todays logs:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_21.1.03.13
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_20.1.05.58
If you want to compare with the flight before motor alignment and Dynamic braking, here is the log from before:
http://log.xaircraft.com/report.htm#2015_09_01_165214.750_19.4.02.05
Attachments
fltundra
Member
Motor alignment still can be better. And when you say the props are balanced, what are you using to balance them?
Hello Fltundra,
In regards of motor alignment, it only has an error of 0.4-0.2 degrees in just one of them (M2), other 3 motors (M1,M3 and M4) all have same degrees with an error of 0.1 to 0.2 degrees (1/10th of one degree),…. I don't think that I can get them closer to a zero, this because I use a very thin washer between motor and frame to adjust level, the washers are very thin but if I use another one it will overshoot the degrees, and there are no thinner washers for this, so for now I will have to leave it there, I think that it is very close.
In regards of the props, I use a Dubro prop balancer and a magnetic balancer to double check, in both cases balance shows perfect, I balanced all props in six points (tips and hubs), so props are perfectly balance.
I really don't think that the issue here are the props, or motor alignment anymore, if there is a problem of balance it would probably be motor balance (bad shaft,etc), which I have not checked. But these are new KDE motors, so I guess they are ok.
The other problem could be that the frame is not stiff enough, I am using a X650 frame, also new, but I insist that it is not a prop problem.
In your case how much vibration do you have on your drone? can you post a graph to check it out?…..thanks again!!
In regards of motor alignment, it only has an error of 0.4-0.2 degrees in just one of them (M2), other 3 motors (M1,M3 and M4) all have same degrees with an error of 0.1 to 0.2 degrees (1/10th of one degree),…. I don't think that I can get them closer to a zero, this because I use a very thin washer between motor and frame to adjust level, the washers are very thin but if I use another one it will overshoot the degrees, and there are no thinner washers for this, so for now I will have to leave it there, I think that it is very close.
In regards of the props, I use a Dubro prop balancer and a magnetic balancer to double check, in both cases balance shows perfect, I balanced all props in six points (tips and hubs), so props are perfectly balance.
I really don't think that the issue here are the props, or motor alignment anymore, if there is a problem of balance it would probably be motor balance (bad shaft,etc), which I have not checked. But these are new KDE motors, so I guess they are ok.
The other problem could be that the frame is not stiff enough, I am using a X650 frame, also new, but I insist that it is not a prop problem.
In your case how much vibration do you have on your drone? can you post a graph to check it out?…..thanks again!!
