Flying in public - what's the UK law?
- Thread starter tikigod19
- Start date
A quick google finds this. Also Phoenix UAV at Bradford upon Avon do courses to pass CAA certification.
http://quadcopter.heliguy.com/Certification-and-Law/
http://quadcopter.heliguy.com/Certification-and-Law/
Here is another link.
http://droidworx.co.nz/technical/flight-safety/
http://droidworx.co.nz/technical/flight-safety/
plingboot
Member
An f550 is a reasonable size/weight, so it's a case of thinking about the worst case scenarios - flyaway, loss of a motor, loss of orientation etc
Next job is to put systems and procedures in place to help mitigate the risks and fall out associated with something going wrong.
Simple stuff like a fail safe which does what you want it to do, audible lipo monitors, regular checks of equipment etc.
Have a look at the various ANO documents which describe minimum distances from property and people, from which you should operate and maximum height and distance you can fly from yourself and then plan your flights accordingly.
If something happens, you can then demonstrate that you've done your best to operate safely.
The bottom line is safety, if in doubt don't fly.
Next job is to put systems and procedures in place to help mitigate the risks and fall out associated with something going wrong.
Simple stuff like a fail safe which does what you want it to do, audible lipo monitors, regular checks of equipment etc.
Have a look at the various ANO documents which describe minimum distances from property and people, from which you should operate and maximum height and distance you can fly from yourself and then plan your flights accordingly.
If something happens, you can then demonstrate that you've done your best to operate safely.
The bottom line is safety, if in doubt don't fly.
This seems like a massive grey area.. I'm imaging I'm at the beach doing some flying away from cars and people, everything secured, batteries in order and a police car pulls up. Should I panic or wave.. I'd not feel confident not knowing the rules, but it seems like there might not be any.. As the popularity of this hobby increases hopefully it won't take a serious accident for the rules to be written down!
When I take my super cub rc plane to the park (still unsure of the rules) I stop flying even dog walkers are within about 300m so I'm certainly cautious..
When I take my super cub rc plane to the park (still unsure of the rules) I stop flying even dog walkers are within about 300m so I'm certainly cautious..
vulcan2go
Member
It doesn't matter if you are just playing about with model aircraft once in a blue moon and only within your back garden - you are subject to the Civil Aviation Authority rules which are defined in the Air Navigation Order (ANO) or CPA 393 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap393.pdf) which is the main document that outlines the Civil Aviation rules for flight. All aero modelers are subject to these rules. Within the ANO there are many other guidelines that apply - see articles 166 and 167 outlined as follows:
Small Unmanned Aircraft
166 (1) A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property.
(2) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can safely be made.
(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.
(4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the aircraft:
(a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained;
(b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of any such air traffic control unit has been obtained; or
(c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the requirements for that airspace.
(5) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must not fly the aircraft for the purposes of aerial work except in accordance with a permission granted by the CAA.
Small Unmanned Surveillance Aircraft (Basically this is commercial acquisition of data ie pictures of video for any form of reward. You MUST be CAA approved eg BNUC-s certified)
167 (1) The person in charge of a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not fly the aircraft in any of the circumstances described in paragraph (2) except in accordance with a permission issued by the CAA.
(2) The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) are:
(a) over or within 150 metres of any congested area;
(b) over or within 150 metres of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons;
(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or
(d) subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), within 50 metres of any person.
(3) Subject to paragraph (4), during take-off or landing, a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not be flown within 30 metres of any person.
(4) Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.
(5) In this article ‘a small unmanned surveillance aircraft’ means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition
The other main ones to look at are:
CAP 658 Model Aircraft - A guide to safe flying (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=145)
CAP 722 UAV operation - (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.pdf)
There are others but I think the above is enough to be going on with - lol
There are special "Exemptions" such as being able to fly FPV without a buddy lead where special rules apply giving specific weight limits etc.
How do I know about this - I am BNUC-S certified and I was part of the FPV group that agreed the FPV exemptions at the end of last year with the CAA.
I'm afraid ignorance of the law is no defense and please make sure you have insurance!
Cheers,
Small Unmanned Aircraft
166 (1) A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property.
(2) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can safely be made.
(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.
(4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the aircraft:
(a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained;
(b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of any such air traffic control unit has been obtained; or
(c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the requirements for that airspace.
(5) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must not fly the aircraft for the purposes of aerial work except in accordance with a permission granted by the CAA.
Small Unmanned Surveillance Aircraft (Basically this is commercial acquisition of data ie pictures of video for any form of reward. You MUST be CAA approved eg BNUC-s certified)
167 (1) The person in charge of a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not fly the aircraft in any of the circumstances described in paragraph (2) except in accordance with a permission issued by the CAA.
(2) The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) are:
(a) over or within 150 metres of any congested area;
(b) over or within 150 metres of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons;
(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or
(d) subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), within 50 metres of any person.
(3) Subject to paragraph (4), during take-off or landing, a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not be flown within 30 metres of any person.
(4) Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.
(5) In this article ‘a small unmanned surveillance aircraft’ means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition
The other main ones to look at are:
CAP 658 Model Aircraft - A guide to safe flying (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=145)
CAP 722 UAV operation - (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.pdf)
There are others but I think the above is enough to be going on with - lol
There are special "Exemptions" such as being able to fly FPV without a buddy lead where special rules apply giving specific weight limits etc.
How do I know about this - I am BNUC-S certified and I was part of the FPV group that agreed the FPV exemptions at the end of last year with the CAA.
I'm afraid ignorance of the law is no defense and please make sure you have insurance!
Cheers,
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alexosborne
Member
Off topic. When I first got into multi's I had never heard of phoenix UAV, however one day I was on my way to bath and I saw a sign for it and then I discovered it was only 2 miles away from my house.
So if anyone is coming down Phoenix, let me know.
Thanks
Alex
Where does it say Article 167 applies to commercial acquisition of data? What it actually says is that it applies to "small unmanned surveillance aircraft". It subsequently defines "small unmanned surveillance aircraft" as "small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition". So pictures or video, for the purpose of [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]acquiring[/FONT] those things rather than flying the machine (i.e. not FPV) is covered by article 167.
vulcan2go
Member
CAA Extract: Article 166 of the <acronym title="Air Navigation Order" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">ANO 2009</acronym> includes specific regulations for small unmanned aircraft and Article 167 of the <acronym title="Air Navigation Order" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">ANO 2009</acronym> includes additional regulations for small unmanned aircraft that are 'equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition'. In summary, they prohibit unmanned aircraft from flying in congested areas, flying close to people or property, flying for aerial work purposes or flying beyond visual line of sight unless permission has been given by the <acronym title="Civil Aviation Authority" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">CAA</acronym>.
Basically the person in charge of a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not fly the aircraft in any of the circumstances described in paragraph (2) except in accordance with a permission issued by the CAA (Permission to Fly)
Surveillance is by definition the pre-determined act of acquiring data ie commercial activity ie reward (this does not necessarily mean money). Therefore if you fly and acquire data for commercial use then this article (167) applies. If you want to do commercial work then you must get an exemption from the CAA with a "Permission to Fly" which "exempts" you from this article - ie BNUC-s certification with the CAA Permission to Fly documentation.
Cheers,
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I think there is still some confusion here.
Where is "surveillance" defined as "commercial"?
But to the broader point, where does it say that aticle 167 only applies to commercial? My point was, and still is, you can be acquiring data without being commercial (i.e. taking non-commercial photographs) and still fall under the requirements of Article 167.
Where is "surveillance" defined as "commercial"?
But to the broader point, where does it say that aticle 167 only applies to commercial? My point was, and still is, you can be acquiring data without being commercial (i.e. taking non-commercial photographs) and still fall under the requirements of Article 167.
vulcan2go
Member
You are right - it is confusing, welcome to the world of the CAA.
I understand this specific article clarifies that an aircraft being equipped for surveillance or data acquisition (which is required by instruction in order to deliver a data stream upon which someone will act), is not allowed unless an exemption is given by the CAA. If you fly and take a picture of your home for you own and others enjoyment then you are not going through a formal act, in which case you are not in conflict with 167, however, if you took the picture as parft of some kind of formal data acquisition process, then you would be covered by that article. If it is anyone's intention to gain some kind of reward then they are subject to that article (ie they can't do it) unless they gain an exemption. Specifically an Unmanned Aircraft Application for Operation - ie Aerial Work which actually covers article 166 and 167 - see the form here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg1320.pdf One of the many things required is an operations manual that defines all the working practices and safe operation of the UAV's which has to be passed and approved by the CAA - these are weighty documents and take a lot of work to complete.
What I do know is without that Aerial Work Permission, I cannot fly for commercial gain. So by my definition articles 166 & 167 are the barrier to any form of commercial reward, I'm really not sure how else to put it. We can play about with words and definitions all day long but the fact remains that these are the articles that apply.
Clear as mud isn't it.
Cheers,
I understand this specific article clarifies that an aircraft being equipped for surveillance or data acquisition (which is required by instruction in order to deliver a data stream upon which someone will act), is not allowed unless an exemption is given by the CAA. If you fly and take a picture of your home for you own and others enjoyment then you are not going through a formal act, in which case you are not in conflict with 167, however, if you took the picture as parft of some kind of formal data acquisition process, then you would be covered by that article. If it is anyone's intention to gain some kind of reward then they are subject to that article (ie they can't do it) unless they gain an exemption. Specifically an Unmanned Aircraft Application for Operation - ie Aerial Work which actually covers article 166 and 167 - see the form here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg1320.pdf One of the many things required is an operations manual that defines all the working practices and safe operation of the UAV's which has to be passed and approved by the CAA - these are weighty documents and take a lot of work to complete.
What I do know is without that Aerial Work Permission, I cannot fly for commercial gain. So by my definition articles 166 & 167 are the barrier to any form of commercial reward, I'm really not sure how else to put it. We can play about with words and definitions all day long but the fact remains that these are the articles that apply.
Clear as mud isn't it.
Cheers,
Sorry old chap, I think perhaps it's me that's confusing you! Let me have another stab it.
I agree that article 167 applies to you in your (and my) commercial endeavours. As you say, that involves ops manuals, demonstrated ability and so on.
The point that I am trying hard to make, for the benefit of other readers, is that nothing about article 167 suggests that it applies only to commercial operations.
This is my problem. Where does it say that? Where is a definition in the ANO that taking a picture for your own enjoyment isn't data acquisition?
No need to put that part any other way - there is no debate about that part.
I think this is what I am really saying - actually we can't play around with words and definitions!
So, I'll give it one more try: where does it say that 167 applies only to flying for gain, flying commercial, etc?
Don't you just love UK law and the way its written, so 'precisely vague' at times.
The industry I work in is covered by a large amount of legislation written in blood, which is just like the ANO and other documents outlined on this thread. So that there is no confusion there is an ACOP - Approved Code of Practice which explains everything in simple plain english. I have read and re-read articles 166 and 167 and other documents too and cannot seem to find simple explanations of terms and phrases used. Perhaps its a lack of understanding on my part or are a number of us suffering a little on the failure of unstanding front.
Should there be a difference between commercial (aerial work) and that carried out for a hobby ? For example if I use a certain type of drill at work, the time I can use it is limited by law, but if I want to use at home there are no limits. I can fully understand that all persons who fly should be competent and that there would be differing levels, especially as it is their business, but I only fly for fun. Remember we all have to pass a driving test to beable to drive on the roads.
So until someone informs me differently, I will apply what my understanding of the regulations and also some common sense. I'm sure the law does not want to stop flying, but just ensures that it is done safely.
The industry I work in is covered by a large amount of legislation written in blood, which is just like the ANO and other documents outlined on this thread. So that there is no confusion there is an ACOP - Approved Code of Practice which explains everything in simple plain english. I have read and re-read articles 166 and 167 and other documents too and cannot seem to find simple explanations of terms and phrases used. Perhaps its a lack of understanding on my part or are a number of us suffering a little on the failure of unstanding front.
Should there be a difference between commercial (aerial work) and that carried out for a hobby ? For example if I use a certain type of drill at work, the time I can use it is limited by law, but if I want to use at home there are no limits. I can fully understand that all persons who fly should be competent and that there would be differing levels, especially as it is their business, but I only fly for fun. Remember we all have to pass a driving test to beable to drive on the roads.
So until someone informs me differently, I will apply what my understanding of the regulations and also some common sense. I'm sure the law does not want to stop flying, but just ensures that it is done safely.
Well. I'm considerably more confused than before I asked the question!
We are saying other than common sense, in theory all flyers in the UK should have attended a course and been signed off as competent? Which I'd imagine is far from accurate..
You people are too clever for me, I think that's it
We are saying other than common sense, in theory all flyers in the UK should have attended a course and been signed off as competent? Which I'd imagine is far from accurate..
You people are too clever for me, I think that's it
vulcan2go
Member
This is fun! I spent quite a bit of time in the past working through large corporate Agreements. Definitions of the terms and phrases used sometimes extended to a significant part of the documents.
Tell you what I will do, I'll drop an email to the CAA guys and ask them to give me a clarification of what 166 and 166 really means. Perhaps it is what they don't say more than what they do say eh!
The primary question I will ask is - if surveillance and data acquisition is prohibited in 167 unless authorised by the CAA (Exemptions and Permissions), does this mean that it only applies to a commercial application (for gain) as the exemption is granted to allow commercial work, or does it also cover a hobbyist taking snaps of his home or the open countryside? If it also applies to the hobbyist then how is that remedied to allow him/her to take pictures for their own use. In addition, what is the CAA's definition and therefore the application of the words "data application" and "surveillance"
That ought to do it - but don't hold your breath for a speedy reply!
Cheers,
Tell you what I will do, I'll drop an email to the CAA guys and ask them to give me a clarification of what 166 and 166 really means. Perhaps it is what they don't say more than what they do say eh!
The primary question I will ask is - if surveillance and data acquisition is prohibited in 167 unless authorised by the CAA (Exemptions and Permissions), does this mean that it only applies to a commercial application (for gain) as the exemption is granted to allow commercial work, or does it also cover a hobbyist taking snaps of his home or the open countryside? If it also applies to the hobbyist then how is that remedied to allow him/her to take pictures for their own use. In addition, what is the CAA's definition and therefore the application of the words "data application" and "surveillance"
That ought to do it - but don't hold your breath for a speedy reply!
Cheers,
I'm guessing you've not dealt with the CAA much!
I don't really understand why people say the rules are unclear. They are completely clear. If the rule was that you could fly a camera close to people and in built-up areas if you weren't doing so for commercial gain, the rules would say that. But they don't.
No. We're saying that nobody, commercial or otherwise, can fly a picture taking craft within 150m of a congested area or assembly of more than 1,000 people, within 50m of pretty much any person or thing unless it's under the pilots control unless you're taking off or landing in which case the limit is 30m. That's Article 167, no more no less. Additionally, article 166 says you must not drop anything to endanger anyone (so you can drop things, just not if doing so endangers someone), you must remain line of sight contact enough to control the aircraft, you need to be satisfied that the flight can be done safely (you decide, but you need to be able justify yourself), and you can't do it for any kind of reward. If it's over 7Kg there are additional rules. To deviate from these rules, you need permission from the CAA. Typically it's granted to allow you to fly for reward, though they can also fix different parameters for things like operating distances and so on.
See? Simple!