First build help F550

[oxystrange]

Hi guys
New to the forum and looking for some advice.
Ive been flying my toy quads(cheerson cx10 and syma x8) for a few months now and want to move up to AP.

Im trying to decide between 2 different F550 kits
1st kit
F550 Hexacopter (Flamewheel) Frame Kit
6x Brushless Motor A22122 13T
6x Brushless ESC 30A*6
6x Propeller 10 ×4.5in
1x Hardware and Accessories
1x ArduPilot Mega APM 2.6 Multicopter Flightcontroller
1x APM Flight Controller Ublox NEO-6M High Precision GPS Module with Compass
1x 3DR Radio Telemetry Kit 915Mhz Module for APM Ardupilot
1x APM2.5 / APM2.6 Power Module/current Module X160 Plug wit BEC
1x Flight Controller Anti-vibration Set Shock Absorber for APM 2.5 2.6 /KK/MWCFC APM2.5 2.6

2nd kit
1 X Flamewheel F550 Frame Set (Assemble is required)
2. 6 X 2212 920KV Motor (from E300 power system)
3. 6 X 15A OPTO ESC (from E300 power system)
4. 4 X 9443 CCW Self-Tightening Propeller (from E300 power system)
5. 4 X 9443 CW Self-Tightening Propeller (from E300 power system)
6. 1 X NAZA-M V2 Flight Controller w/ GPS Module
7. 1 X DJI F450 / F550 Plastic Landing Skids

Im kind of leaning towards the APM mainly because its $200 cheaper and i like the sound of the mission planner ability.
I dont mind spending some time setting it all up but dont want to have to change setting everytime i fly, i already have enough projects on the go. is it possible to set and forget the APM?

I plan on getting a turnigy 9x radio would that be suitable for this?

Next one is on batteries
Im going to load it up with
Gopro + housing (i want to do some stuff over water)
Gimbal
Retractable landing gear
Total about 600g + maybe a fpv setup later on
What would give the best flight time and performance for this setup 3s or 4s?

So in short
NAZA or APM?
Turnigy 9x suitable?
3s or 4s? Size?

Sorry if thats a bit long hope it doesnt read as total gibberish.

Thanks

 

[jinly]

You may want to bump up your ESC's to 30 A. At max. burst you'll probably fry the 15A ESC. You'll need to know your AUW at final build. to determine your lipo. Try the eCalc program to get a vague idea what kind of flight time you'll get with your setup. 4S has more Voltage that will produce more RPM, But will weigh more than the 3S so the added flight time may not be as much as you think. with a bigger Voltage battery. I have the Naza M v2 w/GPS, iOSD Mini, 2.4GHz Datalink with BTU (for autonomous Flights) and really like this system. You are right they are considerably more expensive than the APM. Alot of good reviews for the APM. It's all personal taste. I map the farmland around my homestead with my Quadcopter, so it suits my needs.

 

[oxystrange]

Thanks mate
Yeah it seems like the NAZA is the ulimate in reliability but mainly because of cost I've bought the APM with 30A escs and a turnigy 9x.
I think with the data link and upgrade the esc from the start NAZA would have ended up costing me double.
So is the biggest draw back of 4s the weight?
Im looking at a 4s 8000mah 20c ive heard rumors of some people getting 20min flight time out of them.

Comparing the battery weight
The 4s 8000mah 20c is 643g
And the 3s 8000mah 35c is between 620g-680g depending on brand.
But am i likely to have any problems with a 20C?
My understanding is the biggest draw back of a lower C Rating is longer charge times.

Also had a look on ecalc was a bit confused on the max amp draw of my motors.
I looked up the motors and it said they were 135w
So it said to divide watts by volt and thats the max current per motor.
135/14.8 = 9.12 max current draw. Is this correct?
It just seems awfully low.

 

[jinly]

I did the eCalc on your 2nd kit. with the 2112 920kV Motors and a 3S 8000mah 35C Lipo.The results indicate that max. amp draw is 11.6A. and the max. wattage would be 123W per motor (so it looks like it will be compatible with the E300 2212 and the 20A ESC) about 19 min. of Hover time What you have listed on your build will only work with a 3S lipo. The 4s 8000mah 35C lipo exceeds the max wattage your motor can take before it reaches too high of a temp. and could burn out. It also exceeds your 20A ESC's. If you want to use the 4S 8000 mah 35C Lipo, you're going to have to go with a lower kV motor (eCalc determines 710kV will be compatible with the 20A ESC) or a smaller capacity 4s lipo. The kicker is the weight difference will shorten your flight time by 2 to 3 min. ( total Hover time around 17min.). eCalc is not completely accurate, there is a deviation from real time measurements, but it gives a pretty good estimation if the parts will match according to current draw.

 

[jinly]

your first kit the eCalc determines 18.2 min. of hover time on a 3S 8000 mah 35C lipo. The 4S Lipo will need a lower kV motor or a smaller capacity battery. The 2nd kit is what RTF f550 multicopters are usually sold with.

 

[eskil23]

Im looking at a 4s 8000mah 20c ive heard rumors of some people getting 20min flight time out of them.

It must be without payload in that case.

My understanding is the biggest draw back of a lower C Rating is longer charging time.

The biggest drawback is the higher internal resistance that will make your voltage drop when the amps go up.

 

[oxystrange]

It must be without payload in that case.

Yeah it is

 

[oxystrange]

your first kit the eCalc determines 18.2 min. of hover time on a 3S 8000 mah 35C lipo. The 4S Lipo will need a lower kV motor or a smaller capacity battery. The 2nd kit is what RTF f550 multicopters are usually sold with.

Thats good to know ill definitely be using a 3s 8000mah then. Dont want to risk my motors.
Whats the calculation to determine the battery your motor can handle?
I couldnt find it on ecalc.

 

[jinly]

Thats good to know ill definitely be using a 3s 8000mah then. Dont want to risk my motors.
Whats the calculation to determine the battery your motor can handle?
I couldnt find it on ecalc.

In the category for your battery.you scroll down the listed batteries. Choose the one you would like to try and then click the calculate button.

 

[eskil23]

The E300 propulsion system runs just fine with 4S batteries. The other motors will probably be fine with 4S as well, but there is a chance you have to go down to 9" props (I didn't catch the brand and model)

 

[jinly]

The E300 propulsion system runs just fine with 4S batteries. The other motors will probably be fine with 4S as well, but there is a chance you have to go down to 9" props (I didn't catch the brand and model)

Yes, but a 4s 8000 mah Lipo on 920 kV motors?...hmmm. I run 6s 10000 mah Lipo on 380kV motors on a quad copter using 15 inch props... I think either lower kV motor or a lower capacity 4s Lipo, maybe 4s 4500 mah Lipo.

 

[eskil23]

Yes, but a 4s 8000 mah Lipo on 920 kV motors?...hmmm. I run 6s 10000 mah Lipo on 380kV motors on a quad copter using 15 inch props... I think either lower kV motor or a lower capacity 4s Lipo, maybe 4s 4500 mah Lipo.

All 900-980 kv motors I've seen have been speced for 3S and 4S. All of them are not capable of swinging 10" props when running on 4S, but some are.

If you are going to swing 15" props you definitly need lower kv motors.

The motors don't care about how many mAh your battery has as long as they get the volts they need.

 

[jinly]

All 900-980 kv motors I've seen have been speced for 3S and 4S. All of them are not capable of swinging 10" props when running on 4S, but some are.

If you are going to swing 15" props you definitly need lower kv motors.

The motors don't care about how many mAh your battery has as long as they get the volts they need.

You also forget the amperage x voltage is going to produce certain wattage. Wattage is the factor that can burn out a motor. So motors do care what amperage they draw. Trying to carry a heavy 4s 8000mah Lipo is definitely going to draw more current. I think he said these motors max. Out at about 135watts. I bet he'll get pretty close to that trying to carry that huge Lipo on a 920kv motor. Capacity and cell count all determine the AUW of a multirotor as you probably know. This f55o will fly with the 4S 8000 mah lipo, if you look at all the RTF f550 Flamewheels they sell, most use a smaller capacity batteries. I use to fly my 650 with a 4S 8000 mah lipo. I'm just suggesting the 3S large capacity lipo ( I bet )will be more efficient (i.e.flight time ) and a lot less stressful to the motors than the 4S Large capacity lipo (weight wise) . My buddy flies a f550 hex. with a 4S 8000 mah lipo (AUW-2550g) and only gets 10 min. of flight time. He switched to a 3S 5000 mah (AUW-2200g) that he had and got 7 min. of flight time. He is thinking of going down in Kv and getting larger props for thrust and hoping it will help in his flight time now...ha ha can't win them all..Fly On Brother.

 

[eskil23]

On my F550 I carry a 5500 mAh battey + gimbal + camera for a AUW of about 2,7 kg. A bit heavy, but it's not the 920 kv motors I worry about. If in doubt, use eCalc to get the performance envelope.

 

[jinly]

On my F550 I carry a 5500 mAh battey + gimbal + camera for a AUW of about 2,7 kg. A bit heavy, but it's not the 920 kv motors I worry about. If in doubt, use eCalc to get the performance envelope.

You are so right....Nice Rig!,

 

[oxystrange]

Just an update
Got my 550 build it all to run on a 3s 8000mah
But when i was calibrating the escs a motor decided to start smoking and arcing. So now i have to wait 2weeks for a new esc and motor.
In the meantime ive installed a backlight on my turnigy 9x, programmed 6 flight modes and now setting up my ebay gimbal. Im also building a battery cradle from carbon fibre to mount underneath which my landing gear and gimbal will mount to.