F450 and Naza M not holding altitude(Solved) and questions

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
Hi all, this is one of my first posts if not the first in this forum(I dont remember) I received my F450, Naza M, and X468 XT Gimbal last monday and proceeded to build it I have also a S800 with Zenmuse and Wookong M so the build was very easy and fast, checking the parameters from the Naza M was very easy and straigthforward, I just copied the sugested gain parameters from the manual for my setup(3S 10inch props stock).

As I said I have a S800 and I was sure this F450 was a piece of cake, but noooooo, I went outside and calibrated the compass then went in to my shop again(it was dark outside) and then I lift off in attitude mode, the F450 was very stable on the sides no driftig to any direction, the problem was to maintain altitude, it was almost imposible, the F450 was jumping and falling and many times I was very close to hit the ground or the ceiling.

I came here and other forums and saw that some people had similar problems but not exactly the same, then a found one post were a guy had a similar problem and solved it changing the props for the 8 inch(stock), so I did and was just magic my f450 flew very well, I was able to mantain altitud almost perfectly the only thing that I had changed was the props.

As I was using the 8 inch props I used a 4S battery, so I decided to try the 10 inch props with the 4S but again the problem came back It was imposible to mantain altitude, as I was detrmined to solve the problem(jajaja) I check balance on the 10inch props.

Both props marked R, were way off balance, I did a litle sanding on the heavy sides but I noticed i was going to thin the props a lot if wanted that to work so I just placed some electrical tape to the light sides of props.

That made the diference now it hovers very nice.!!!

Now my question, I plan to use the f450 as a training plataform mostly for IOC testing and to get acustom to the diferent IOC modes(I havent tried that on my S800), but as I said in the begining I also got the x468 that I plan to use on the f450 with my gopro camera, so my questions are:

Should i go for the 4S 8inch props or the 3S 10inch pros?
What happends if I fly the 4S with 10inch props and viceversa?
What aftermarket props/baterry combo do you recomend for the f450 with the x468 gimbal?


Thanks in advance and I hope this information helps some newbes like me with multicopters
 

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M

mrbonk

Member
The 10" props are intended for use with 3S. The 8" are for 4S. If you use the 10" props with a 4S pack, the motor load will increase and they'll pull more amps. Depending on how many amps they can handle, it might be too much and they'll overheat. Also, I'm not sure I'd want to be spinning those 10" props at 4S speeds....anyone else done that successfully? I'd be worried about them shedding a blade....they're not the strongest looking props I've seen ;)

I put an EagleTree datalogger on the 450 and was surprised that the max current was 29amps for the whole machine while on 3S and 10" props. So providing the props don't explode and the motors can take it, I'd be surprised if the speedies can't handle 4S and 10" props.
 

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
mrbonk thank for your quick response, I will order the 3s as I have just one and it is very old, I think having less weigth that the 4S will match flying times and power of the 4S 8inc combo.

any sugestion on 10 inch propellers(not dji)? I'm afraid to loose the elctric tape i used to balance when flying with gimbal and that up and down dance will be dangerus
 

M

mrbonk

Member
I'm using APC props on the F450. I did some test flights on our new F550 hexa this afternoon, using the supplied 10" props on 3S. They needed quite a bit of balancing, including the hubs on a few of them. I have 10x5 APC props on order for this craft, so when they turn up I'll swap the standard ones out and see how much of a difference they make. If the F450 is anything to go by, they should make quite a difference.

Just looking at your balancing tape......when I do mine, I use clear mylar tape and wrap it around the leading edge, so it's much less likely to fly off in flight. These standard DJI props are just too thin to be able to sand down, so tape is a better solution I think.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

L

luismesas

Member
Hi,

10' props using 4S will be too much load for DJI stock ESC-Motors when motors are at full speed. Just fly with them for a minute and check their temperature. Anyway, if you use this calc: http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm; you will get a warning with the 10'' - 4S setup.

About the gain parameters, those F440 in manual are for the 8'' setup, for 10'' you will need to tweak and your total weight will affect.

One thing that affected a lot on my firsts flights are the gravity center, try to keep it (displacing your batt) as near as possible to the Z axis of your quad. Of course setting it on the app will be good, but that will make some motors working more than others when hovering and moving, making your energy drain less efficient meaning on a smaller flight time.

I also used tape method for balancing my props with 3M electrical tape and they are fine.
 

olof

olof

Osprey
It has been mentioned here many times, prop balance and CG balance is very important.

I also have 450 and an S800 w/Zen and a 550.The S800 is fantastic so smooth now with the new SW an FW update. But so is my 450 I love flying it after flying the 800. It is so tiny and responsive.

I use the Graupner E-props 10x5 with 3s lipos on the 450 and 550. I tried other prop like the Carbon Fiber GemFans and Carbon/Plastic Gemfans and the stock combinations but these are really good and super smooth after balancing, it did not take much to balance them and the hubs hardly needed any at all. The GemFans needed a lot. Anyway the E-props sound really good and just makes the 450/550 fly much better for me anyway, they also give me longer flight times.
 

H

hazardpro

Member
We have been using 4s 4000mAh with stock motors / Esc's and 10" graupners with no issues.

i personally run with tiger 900kv and tbs Esc's and 10" graupners and always fly hard, flips, rolls etc. Again no issues.

(Wouldn't use stock props for any set up)

@olof - sw & fw update?

doug
 
Last edited by a moderator:

olof

olof

Osprey
hazardpro said:
@olof - sw & fw update?

doug
Click to expand...

The SW/FW I mentioned is for the 800 with WKM, it just came out a few days ago, I thought I made that clear, maybe not. It was a big improvement on the 800.

My point was that the 450 & 550 are also very smooth with Naza and E-Props. The balanced Graupners are great.

The only problem I had with the Naza was the dreaded drop/surge in altitude when the left side of the Naza is hit by bright light. Thick black foam tape on the left side of Naza fixed this. I have video before and after that shows this very clearly. I also had a bad Naza replaced a while ago.
 

H

hazardpro

Member
Sorry I know I am probably being thick... I meant what do they stand for (SW, FW)

I recent got a S800 so keen to know.

EDIT - ok I am being thick.. Software, Firmware...... DOH

Thanks

Doug
 

olof

olof

Osprey
Doug, I hate acronyms but use them anyway, go figure...

It is the times we live in.

The really confusing thing is if you are in many different disciplines the same acronyms mean different things. Like SW can stand for short wave or soft ware. I should be more specific. You are not thick, this happens to me all the time. If you work in emergency care, electronics/computers, video, photography etc. you are drowning in them.
 

pptvark

pptvark

Member
Olof,

I am a newb and the acronyms are killing me! Do you know of a thread or link that has these terms? i.e. 3s=3 cell It is driving me nuts since the sense of newbishness is keeping me from jumping in since I feel like I don't even know the basic terminology. I just keep plugging along and skip over the terms I don't know, but it would be great if there was a dedicated link to quadlingo.com !

Thanks!
Patrick
 

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
luismesas said:
Hi,

10' props using 4S will be too much load for DJI stock ESC-Motors when motors are at full speed. Just fly with them for a minute and check their temperature. Anyway, if you use this calc: http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm; you will get a warning with the 10'' - 4S setup.

About the gain parameters, those F440 in manual are for the 8'' setup, for 10'' you will need to tweak and your total weight will affect.

One thing that affected a lot on my firsts flights are the gravity center, try to keep it (displacing your batt) as near as possible to the Z axis of your quad. Of course setting it on the app will be good, but that will make some motors working more than others when hovering and moving, making your energy drain less efficient meaning on a smaller flight time.

I also used tape method for balancing my props with 3M electrical tape and they are fine.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the link and information

saludos desde mexico
 

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
olof where do you order the Graupner E-props I will be visiting Houston TX next week and I might order some props in advance

thanks for you info
 

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
hazardpro said:
We have been using 4s 4000mAh with stock motors / Esc's and 10" graupners with no issues.

i personally run with tiger 900kv and tbs Esc's and 10" graupners and always fly hard, flips, rolls etc. Again no issues.

(Wouldn't use stock props for any set up

@olof - sw & fw update?

doug
Click to expand...

thank you hazardrop for all your input definitely I will go with the graupners
 

O

OaxacaHeli

Member
pptvark said:
Olof,

I am a newb and the acronyms are killing me! Do you know of a thread or link that has these terms? i.e. 3s=3 cell It is driving me nuts since the sense of newbishness is keeping me from jumping in since I feel like I don't even know the basic terminology. I just keep plugging along and skip over the terms I don't know, but it would be great if there was a dedicated link to quadlingo.com !

Thanks!
Patrick
Click to expand...

You will be all ok with acronyms in a couple of month just keep flying and of course reading this great forum I dont know any dictionary but that is a good idea!!!
 


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