CMROA Guidelines

[The Dragon Flyer]

Let's start the discussion about some no-nonsense guidelines for Professional Multirotor Operators!

My first subject of discussion would be the LIPOs! Knowing that they burst in flames when ponctured, and they do easily!!!
Should we all fly hard case LIPOs? Oh I can hear all the pilots saying that they own a couple of thousands of dollars in regular LIPOs...
But if you want your insurance to be valid, you have to take all safety precautions!

So what is your opinion?

 

[flitelab]

Personally I don't think hard case should be a requirement. There is more danger from improper charging and storage than puncture from in usage in my view.
Finding hard cased lipos with the required specs would be an issue.

It comes down to managing risks and using common sense. You cannot remove all risk so need to focus on the areas that are the higher risk items. Damage from a punctured lipo while in use is low on the list I think, considering that a puncture would be the result of a crash which in of itself could cause as much or more damage.

 

[mbsteed]

I agree with flitelab on the batteries. My question would be, do we need additional restrictions given that Transport Canada has so many requirements already? I do think we need to be as safe as possible but sometimes with all the restrictions and guidelines we find it difficult to do business - it limits the jobs we can take.

 

[The Dragon Flyer]

Please don't see guidelines as regulations... Just making our work safer by offering basic guidelines.
This discussiion about batteries might lead to safer placement of LIPOs on multirotors, who knows!?!?
But knowing that every LIPOs ponctured bursts into flames... We should look into safer use!
Suggestions anyone?

 

[JustinTanny]

If you are looking to fly to a work destination with Lipo batteries you are only allowed two per person in commercial passenger aircraft, I do not expect that to change. This is an international rule, but security is only just starting to enforce it. The USA is slow to catch on.

I fly with two batteries for redundancy, meaning in the above scenario I would have one 10 minute flight with the a 9 KG payoload I carry.

The trick is to have a big enough battery fleet that you can ship half your batteries via the dangerous goods air cargo shipping guidelines to the destination before you get there. You'll need a certified dangerous goods packer for this. Its costly and time consuming but the only legal way.

Canada's dangerous goods departments have certainly made the Canadian airports fully aware of the lipo rules. I've witnessed camera men miss flights because of Brushless Gimbal (MovI) batteries.

 

[flitelab]

Understood they are merely guidelines but I don't agree that hard cased lipos is a worthwhile one to have. There are bigger issues to focus on and a lipo exploding while in use is a small risk. In a hard impact even a hard case may not prevent anything anyway. Guideline for proper storage, charging, and limiting the amount of total uses on a pack would make more sense in my view and is the much higher risk. A lipo usually wont explode under use in flight. And if you have a crash there are other factors beyond fire to deal with as well.

 

[The Dragon Flyer]

Wee will get into the charging guidelines for sure! It is a full course just to understand the dos and dont's...
I for myself don't have any hard case LIPOs but I have set the grassfield on fire last year, but no other damages!
I don't put them under anymore...

 

[The Dragon Flyer]

If you are looking to fly to a work destination with Lipo batteries you are only allowed two per person in commercial passenger aircraft, I do not expect that to change. This is an international rule, but security is only just starting to enforce it. The USA is slow to catch on.

I fly with two batteries for redundancy, meaning in the above scenario I would have one 10 minute flight with the a 9 KG payoload I carry.

The trick is to have a big enough battery fleet that you can ship half your batteries via the dangerous goods air cargo shipping guidelines to the destination before you get there. You'll need a certified dangerous goods packer for this. Its costly and time consuming but the only legal way.

Canada's dangerous goods departments have certainly made the Canadian airports fully aware of the lipo rules. I've witnessed camera men miss flights because of Brushless Gimbal (MovI) batteries.

Great point! Thanks for sharing!!!

 

[W. Reimer]

In the early days/months/years of Lithium batteries, the chemistry was such that they would burst into flame if you looked at them funny; no longer. There have been a lot of improvements in Lithium battery technology in the last decade, and shock safety and thermal runaway resistance have been at the top of the list. It's VERY difficult to get a lithium battery to go into a thermal runaway through shock alone any more...it very seldom happens in isolation.
I can't imagine a scenario where you could puncture or otherwise rupture a LiPo in flight that did not involve a catastrophic incident (i.e. mid-air collision, crash) Excessive discharges can happen, and having a hard shell battery isn't going to change that one iota. If you're going to experience a runaway, it will be on the ground, attached to a charger, 99 time out of a hundred. Again a hard shel won't make a bit of difference.
I would much rather see a minimum standard set of charger safety features that mess with what sort of shell your battery has. That, and a recommendation for the use of a battery bag for charging & storing would serve a greater need, I'd think.

 

[Airborneye]

I would like to join.

 

[Scott Drysdale]

There is no such thing as 100% safety..... It is all an exercise in risk management.
So IMHO even recommending hard shells for LiPo batteries for MRs is over zealous and possibly counterproductive.
To make-up for the increased weight so as to regain flight time lost due to excessive weight would require even larger batteries!
Investing more time and energy in flight preparation makes more sense as does taking a fire extinguisher to the flying site if ground conditions warrant it.
But leave the dog at home and not in the vehicle when their are spare LiPos stored there!!!! :nevreness:

Let's start the discussion about some no-nonsense guidelines for Professional Multirotor Operators!

My first subject of discussion would be the LIPOs! Knowing that they burst in flames when ponctured, and they do easily!!!
Should we all fly hard case LIPOs? Oh I can hear all the pilots saying that they own a couple of thousands of dollars in regular LIPOs...
But if you want your insurance to be valid, you have to take all safety precautions!

So what is your opinion?

 

[Airborneye]

I just came back from Mexico on a shoot. I just handed the ground cameraman 2 bats, I took 2 and we brought another person along who took 2 bats. Ideally it's best to ship, but this is easier said than done.

If you are shipping them as dangerous goods you or someone on your staff needs to have the certification to pack dangerous goods or you'll need to take them to a place that specializes in packing dangerous goods and can sign off on them. I'll probably be getting this training this year so I can send bats wherever needed. But this adds time and cost on the job. You can also get your company registered to ship dangerous goods. I got all the paper work sent to me from DHL.

That being said, knock on wood, I've never had issue with Lipos. When not in use they are stored at storage levels and keep in a cool place. Plus pre and post flight checks go a long way.