Caught on camera, multirotor crashes into crowd at Great Bull Run

Status
Not open for further replies.

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
One thing I just realized is that this event will force the FAA to put their money where their mouth is. If they don't throw the book at these guys, then everybody will know that the FAA prohibition on commercial flights has no legitimacy. All they've done so far is issues C&D letters, but there's never been any other legal action that I have seen. They better step up here.
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Anyone want to buy all 3 of my helicopters. I'm out! This **** is gonna kill the industry overnight. RMRC flying live 10,000'. Phantoms everywhere, DJI=Skynet, China programming our toys, etc. have an octo,Y6 and fold n fly.
 

jhardway

Member
After reading through the update link, this actually is starting to make some sense, common sense is also a big part of what we do and looking at the video there are many things where many of us would have done differently, including me, I would not want any part of such an event. With that said if I did, I differently would not cross the paved part of the track, and if I was over the dirt part I would stay more toward the animal section.

My guess from the video is that the copter had a catastrophic power failure. From what it sounds like, its possible the pilot was not keeping sense of power used, The first time I watched the video I thought to myself that they were not doing a good job of flying smoothly, especially how the copter dropped right before the event happened, I now think the operator may have hit the second voltage threshold which cause the craft to descend, he then added power to level off, which you can do. Since the copter was pretty heavy the battery curve was dropping quick, as the m3 motor needed more power to keep it level, the battery just did not have, that's why right before it topple over it started drifting left. Next came a chain of events causing it to topple over.

Once 3 position motor was not leveling off the copter from the lack of power, then the FC threw power to the other two motors over on that side (2,4), that draw was to much and that made the battery voltage current drop below those ESCs cut off point, and they shut down, which then caused the copter to start tumbling left with no chance of recovery.

What I write is just a theory, and I can tell you from my past experiences when I did not know how crucial draining batteries where. When I got a new battery I would then take it out and fly it until I hit my second threshold, by then I was only a few feet off the ground and over a soft grass area, at that point I would then wait with my finger on the stick for the copter to drop, once it started to drop, which the characteristics looked very similar to what to place here I then you drop the throttle and the copter would usually land with out any issues.

Once you drop the throttle the copter then would not have such a demand for power and the landing where fast but stable. I would do that so I would know exactly the time I could plan the copter would fall out of the sky in a emergency situations, also it would help me figure out the crucial threshold - 1 min before complete shut down.

Again that was when I did not know what that would do to the batteries, a newbee thing.

This was not a good day for Multirotors !!

best all


An updated news video with updated details ... Federal investigation underway.

http://wtvr.com/2013/08/26/great-bull-run-crash-victims/

The news report indicates that the owner of the multirotor "leased" it to a third party to film the Bull Run.

Leased a multirotor to a third party ... are you kidding me?

You think the owner is a little worried today?

.
 

jhardway

Member
Not sure when but team blacksheep was hit with a $10,000 fine but that is the only one on record for what I understand.

One thing I just realized is that this event will force the FAA to put their money where their mouth is. If they don't throw the book at these guys, then everybody will know that the FAA prohibition on commercial flights has no legitimacy. All they've done so far is issues C&D letters, but there's never been any other legal action that I have seen. They better step up here.
 

jhardway

Member
I'm right behind you !!!

Anyone want to buy all 3 of my helicopters. I'm out! This **** is gonna kill the industry overnight. RMRC flying live 10,000'. Phantoms everywhere, DJI=Skynet, China programming our toys, etc. have an octo,Y6 and fold n fly.
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Not sure when but team blacksheep was hit with a $10,000 fine but that is the only one on record for what I understand.

I don't think that is quite so cut and dry. I believe that this fine was suggested, I don't know that it actually made it through the legal system nor was ever paid.

Edit:

Yep, all I see is that the FAA "Proposed" a $10,000 fine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Anybody else notice the Deans-to-XT60 connection wrapped in electrical tape just above the camera? What a nightmare.

Deans, XT60, EC5, 4mm bullet... Anything else?

What a mess!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Are you kidding me???? that was leased to the guys flying it??? It ran out of batteries??? All that said, it is very slightly funny that these idiots are running away from bulls, yet the heli falls and all hell breaks loose. People are so stupid sometimes.
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Yeah, I know... I'm sitting here wondering if it would be OK for me to "chase" off-road motorcycle riders. (not too close, hundred feet away, but you get the point). They're riding 30mph through the trees, you think an octocopter is a significant extra risk? How about shooting at a car rally? Do the spectators have an expectation of safety?

In any case, the spectators at that event should have expected they were safe, waiver or not.

I also saw suggestion elsewhere that the GPS puck was backwards? It's definitely backwards vs. the camera, but it's not clear if that gimbal has a pan mount or not.
 



MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
Anyone want to buy all 3 of my helicopters. I'm out! This **** is gonna kill the industry overnight. RMRC flying live 10,000'. Phantoms everywhere, DJI=Skynet, China programming our toys, etc...


Hell of a sales technique you got going there Iris! :dread:
 

jhardway

Member
ya, I don't know if it was paid, but to say you can do what ever you want with a copter, but when there is a commercial value to it you can not do the exact same thing. At the end of the day you can not have it both ways, its either governed or not governed and the fact there is value put on the output should not be the general rule for what's right or wrong.



I don't think that is quite so cut and dry. I believe that this fine was suggested, I don't know that it actually made it through the legal system nor was ever paid.

Edit:

Yep, all I see is that the FAA "Proposed" a $10,000 fine.
 

jhardway

Member
classic :)
Are you kidding me???? that was leased to the guys flying it??? It ran out of batteries??? All that said, it is very slightly funny that these idiots are running away from bulls, yet the heli falls and all hell breaks loose. People are so stupid sometimes.
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
ya, I don't know if it was paid, but to say you can do what ever you want with a copter, but when there is a commercial value to it you can not do the exact same thing. At the end of the day you can not have it both ways, its either governed or not governed and the fact there is value put on the output should not be the general rule for what's right or wrong.

Yes, I find that completely asinine as well. I think the concept is based on the idea that full-scale pilots would take more chances in order to earn money than they would if it was just for fun. But I think the equation changes a lot with any form of RC because the pilot's own life is on not on the line. Hobby pilots can be just as, or even more reckless than professionals.
 

DennyR

Active Member
Yes, I find that completely asinine as well. I think the concept is based on the idea that full-scale pilots would take more chances in order to earn money than they would if it was just for fun. But I think the equation changes a lot with any form of RC because the pilot's own life is on not on the line. Hobby pilots can be just as, or even more reckless than professionals.
I know of at least 20 pilots who have killed themselves in the last 30 years and other people as well whilst engaged in low level aerial filming. Mostly helicopters. That has not stopped aerial filming, It has changed a few rules and regs. but the underlying fact is that you can still go out there and do it in most areas. Class A airspace ( over major cities etc.) are heavily restricted especially around airports so if you are busting that airspace then you are going to have the Feds chase you down. When a full size heli pilot has invested around 60,000 in getting his license he will be naturally careful about breaking ANY laws. Model pilots however are going to plead ignorance (which for some will not be too difficult). Well publicized Heavy fines are the the only way to stop these idiots. Like it or not the day will come when a weight restriction will outlaw heavy lift vehicles for commercial use in the public domain. That is not to say that on a film set and a controlled environment one cannot use a heavy lift cinematic rig. At the outset of legislation a weight limit was set of around 4 lbs. which seemed to have been dropped for some reason. 1.5 kilos would be quite a sensible target.

Working at a high sensitivity military base recently I had to use the standard RT protocol each time I lifted off to communicate with ATC. This or at least a telephone call to the local tower should be a part of any model clearance to fly near an airport. That would mean that model pilots would have to sit the PPL RT exam and know how to use an Icom. It would be the first line of enquiry should the local police turn up and ask what is going on. This may sound a little OTT but if you want to share airspace with full size aircraft then isn't it time you understood how the system works.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Im certainly not supporting ignorant flying habits but this I believe that manufacturers should also bd required to meet certain safety requirements. In a real Heli everything has to pass so many tests before it can bd released. I'll be curious to see how foreign manufacturers like Dji will collaborate with the FAA. I don't think they really care as long as sales continue. Most incidents are human error but this needs to be a much more perfected science before the world is able to have the kind of access we do to these "toys."
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
... Model pilots however are going to plead ignorance (which for some will not be too difficult)...
+3 :triumphant:


... I believe that manufacturers should also be required to meet certain safety requirements...
I concur, Sir; re:
... Official regulation should go further back up the supply chain to the manufacturers and retailers ...


..I'll be curious to see how foreign manufacturers like Dji will collaborate with the FAA...
If Apple iPhone sales can bet banned through some patent infringement claim I am pretty sure all DJI products could get blocked on any number of grounds. That would make DJI et all sit up and listen!

Whilst we have all been bemoaning crappy firmware releases and having to constantly pay for version 2's, and have all witnessed the video'd results of the various component and software failures, official government bodies looking for blood will more likely focus on the public safety aspect of all this dodgy gear. THAT would be wonderful. Then, having forced the manufacturers to make reliable gear the official bodies can introduce the licence, which can only be obtained via competence test, to filter out the stupid fcukwits that are causing all the problems. Dealers would be permitted to sell only to card carrying model club members. There are model clubs and associations absolutely everywhere and these are where the learning to build, maintain, setup and fly process would take place prior to applying for the licence. Anyone caught flying solo without a recognised and valid competence licence gets unreasonably heavily fined and their gear confiscated.Licence revenue and fines can go towards the policing cost.


I detest official regulation and the ignorant and uninformed bureaucrat berks who are generally responsible for implementing it, but if this would eliminate all the stupid, stupid toe-rags then I would accept it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Benjamin Kenobi

Easy? You call that easy?
From a UK perspective, we already have a system that encompasses almost all of the points raised. We're flight tested and our aircraft is checked. The latest wookong update is a direct response to the 'X Factor Incident' where it was officially concluded the GPS puck came off. This at least shows manufacturers can listen when forced too, even DJI.

I still see a very bright future for MRs, in the UK at least. I haven't met anyone who hasn't responded with a touch of awe at the mention of UAV aerial video (I don't say UAV obviously, because that sounds boring). I know there's more of a stigma attached to 'drones' in the USA but when people start seeing more of our work and their little eyes turn big with glee, then we'll see a big change in public perception.

So far only a little over 400 people have started the BNUC-S license in the UK (plus about 5 RPQ-S, the new license) so hardly a saturated market.

Ta ta.
 

Teamflail

Member
Well, the article is now on the front page of CNN.com. Should be hearing from the FAA shortly. Glad to hear that the UK is more organized about the rules and regulations.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top