Can this really be true?

[adanac]

I have just called a major multi-rotor dealer (whom I will not name but whose banner ad may even appear above as you read this) who has said that in order to properly fly something as small as a GH2, one must spend at least $8K. He said no stable, professional-looking footage is possible with a platform that costs less than that. He also said implied no stable footage was possible with any gimbal except a Zenmuse.

In addition, he described the multirotor I was considering, the S800, terrible. He didn't want to sell me one. If what he says is true I'm grateful for the information, but I'm not sure where that leaves me now.

Do I really have to spend upwards of $8K to get a platform that will shoot well with something as small as a GH2?

 

[Bartman]

what components might you already own or will this be your first RC vehicle?

 

[adanac]

Bartman, this would be my first one. I'm an NYC based camera operator and I think I've caught the bug. Some of my clients would be happy with GoPro footage but I need to aim higher than that for other clients and myself. Moreover, if possible, I would prefer not to buy something that I'll grow out of very soon. If possible, I'd like to lift up to 1.5kg, excluding gimbal, although I'd settle for 1kg to start.

I've been researching here for a couple weeks and this dealer's (strong) opinion runs counter to my inference.

 

[jcmonty]

In my opinion that's not true. Sure you can spend that amount and get a very nice setup, but it's possible to get smooth footage with a much less expensive setup for a camera the size of a Gh3. With the new direct drive brushless gimbals coming out on the scene - even "Zenmuse" quality is coming down in price.

DJI frames tend to pass vibration more easily than others. I have no experience with teh S800, but it wouldn't be my first choice if spending that much.

If this is your first setup, spend some time getting familiar with a less expensive setup. You could have the best setup in the world, but it's mostly about experience when it comes to getting "professional" video

 

[Bartman]

Adanac,

Where in the NYC area do you live? I grew up in Nutley and live a little West of there now in NJ still. If you want to meet up and see how these things work I'd be happy to show you.

I've got some multi-rotor experiments (not evil experiments, sorry!) planned and can use a good camera person to contribute to the process if you're interested.

PM me when you have a second and I'll contact you off-site.

Bart

 

[adanac]

PM sent (sorry if I accidentally sent it twice!).

 

[FerdinandK]

From my point of view, he just told you the truth. Anyhow, such a cam-carrier should not be your first multirotor, better so start learning with something small and cheap.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[adanac]

Ferdinand, thank you. If it's the truth, then not a single user here in these forums with a multi-rotor costing less than $8K is producing professional-looking footage.

What do you consider small and cheap? Even an F330 will cost me $1000 all in.

From my point of view, he just told you the truth. Anyhow, such a cam-carrier should not be your first multirotor, better so start learning with something small and cheap.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[FerdinandK]

@adanac
In my opinion, a lot of MR people have a selective memory regarding their expenses. You are here in a world full of "researchers", a lot of them might be able to build a copter with gimbal that has cheaper components and the might produce acceptable footage (but they also count on a lot of experience (that has been $$$ in the past)). The main rule is, that if it works for them, this does not mean it works for you (you can do a lot wrong). The average guy entering this hobby has by far not the skills to do so. But just have a look to the video-thread, and pm the people what their equipment is like, and at what price they would sell it. I am sure most of them will not even tell you a price. If somebody tells you that it can be done cheaper, ask how, ask for a part-list, ask for videos, ask for the shops where to buy.

If it is just for hobby, just spent that much money, that if you crash the copter just around the corner, you can say "too bad, glad that nobody got hurt, let´s go for the next copter". Ask the people how many copter they crashed until the got "smooth footage".

Putting a cam on a copter is not the end, it is the beginning of a long journey.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[adanac]

Good points, but disappointing for me. I was hoping $6K would buy me something that looked good and that I could use to make money while saving for something better.

What would you consider a good first, cheap multi, as you suggested earlier?

 

[3dheliguy]

O Ferdinand you are so Correct even coming from Single Rotors at a high level this stuff is just in a whole other Realm.

Adanac, I would love to say this stuff is easy, but unfortunetly these Multi systems have got to be some of the most technically advanced aerial birds out there, and each one has its own set of issues and dilemmas. In other words there is no perfect system, there is only a system built around what the user is looking to accomplish, and for pro level VIDEO... well im sorry to say your right at that mark where 6000 dollars is a drop in the bucket, compared to the amount of man hours your going to spend trying to understand what system and how to implicate it for your type of filming.

As much as I hate to say this, If I were in your situation, I would get with an individual that has extensive knowledge of multis, and either have them work with you for your business, or pay them money to teach you what you actually need. Now this wont be easy because alot of them dont want to talk about this stuff other than on this forums. So my second suggestion is buy a ready to fly from a dealer located within the united states that offers a training program with your purchase. This wont be cheap, but its worth it for a new industry standard of aerial.

Anyways good Luck

 

[FerdinandK]

I do not know your plans behind (but I can imagine). Take your time, do not put yourself under pressure (by aiming to make money). First learn to fly, learn to have fun while flying a multi, if this is not fun for you, you will no do this for a long time. Take a cheap quadframe, cheap motors cheap esc- and a KK2.0 board, an as the first quest, get this thing in the air. The frame can simply be aluminium arms (10x10mm) the centerplates can be plywood, that is robust and easy to change, if you like to have more RTF, all the shops are full of different frames and offers for motors/esc. Small is something that has 8-10" props a copter with 15" props is not small!

If this is not for hobby, you should rely on some people/shops/dealers with experience and pay the extra $, since this will save you a lot of money on the long term.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[3dheliguy]

Crashing is not an option. lol

 

[adanac]

Thanks for all the advice. At this point, it's not so much my inexperience in flying that is my problem, it's my inexperience in choosing a multi. Moreover, I was more than surprised to learn that it's impossible to get stable footage for less than $8K. I feel like I've seen it.

I wonder if there might be some confusion about the definition of professional. I'm not talking about flying my RED, I'm talking about flying a GH2 or maybe a 5D. And although I'd like to use something better than a GoPro a lot of the time, I know of shows that use them. TV shows. Properly used, any of these, could be used in television (and to a lesser extent) film production, not to mention the other known applications such as real estate, etc. However, if it's not possible to get stable footage from any airborne camera for under $8K then I either need to find an investor or stick with my MQX. Or just operate for pilots, of course.

 

[ryanroberts1983]

I dont agree, my f550 and flame gear xt with an nex5n was rock solid. I am moving to a carboncore 950 and photoship 3x pro v2 though.

 

[RobertsUp]

If you have a $50,000 dollar red epic camera then why are you asking questions at all.

Lots of people making videos are able to make cinematic videos better than your trys and spending a fraction of the money.


How long ago did you acquire your red?

 

[adanac]

I confess I don't understand the question but suspect it takes us off topic. I do not own an Epic and they do not cost $50K. Even if I did, the ownership of a particular camera does not, unfortunately, give one knowledge of multirotors. I wish it did! If you have further off-topic questions/comments about cameras let's move to PM. I will endeavor to help.

If you have a $50,000 dollar red epic camera then why are you asking questiions at all?

 

[Bartman]

gents! why such a buzzkill?

$8k is a lot of money and if spent responsibly it should most certainly get someone close to having the capability to shoot video. granted there are a lot of challenges and not all of them can be overcome with money but $8k will get things pretty far along.

adanac, compared to video, photos are almost easy. good, stable, smooth, sustained video shots take a lot of work as most of the stuff you'll find advertised doesn't work as well as they'll say it does.

 

[olof]

It is true in my opinion that to get constantly good results you need to spend 10K or so.

I have an S800 with Zen and I love it. Even in windy conditions you can get smooth images. I know lots of people who love them, others hate them, what can I say. Some people just really hate Chinese products. Others have valid reasons. But for the money the 800/Zen is a bargain IMHO.

I also have a F550 with a $500.00 gimbal, and I can put my NEX5 or GoPro on it and get some great footage but only in perfect windless conditions, and you really have to be a very smooth flyer to pull that off.

I would start with a DJI f450 or F550 and get a really good radio like a Futaba 8FG super. That you can use as you move up in models. You will crash in the beginning and don't do that with a 10K rig. I have broken things on the 800 as well, it is expensive, it has always been my fault. It is also a lot harder to fly a S800 with Zen it is very heavy 15lbs loaded. Lots of momentum, especially down, learn to fly with an easier to control multi. Once you are comfortable generally flying multies the 800 is actually very easy to fly, it tolerates bad conditions much better than lighter smaller craft.

Learning the basics and getting comfortable flying nose in and every other angle as well as coordinated turns take a lot of practice as does flying in tight quarters and under trees etc. So learn on a small multi with GoPro, you can get some great footage while you learn. Did I say that it is just plain fun too.

 

[Fiveflat]

I have mixed feelings about this topic. I bought myself an inexpensive collective pitch single rotor helicopter to learn how to fly only 2 months ago. 1 month ago I bought a 500 class helicopter and just recently purchased an F450.
I did have learning curve with my first collective heli. My F450 though (granted it has Naza with GPS) have never once been crashed (knock on wood) I have a cheap 2 axis gimbal and I've produced stable, quality video with a GoPro. Is it something worthly of television? No!


adanac, I don't believe you need to spend $8000 unless you are producing a Hollywood feature. Watch some of the reality television shows on primetime television today though, My gopro video IS more stable than some of their shots! If you have a 5D, maybe you might consider the EOS-M mirrorless dslr that with an adapter will fit your EF glass too.