Great Forum..Now for the questions - Herefordshire

[Marshyman]

Hi Guys from wet but now sunny Herefordshire
Really great forum. Been looking at a few and I can say this has the largest collection of knowledge and experience. Also the comment from Admin about getting into AP's and Quads, the pitfalls and the costs is honest to say the least and a breath of fresh air with all the temptations in the RC world.

I am not sure if this is the place for questions, so Admin, just let me know if you want them somewhere else.

First major question.
Does anyone know how to break it to the wife that I am going to spend next years Holiday fund of £2.5K on a piece of Aluminium and plastics that cannot do the dishes....or alternatively a divorce lawyer who can do a no win no fee !!!!???

Anyway back to the subject we no doubt, all enjoy .

I have done quite a bit of Fixed Wing RC, and have a little Hirobi Heli I use around the house and on calm days. I am also a qualified Heli pilot as well so understand the dynamics of rotor flight.
After seeing the development of multi-rotors over the last 2 years, I must admit it hits the spot in what i always wanted to do in extending the payload of RC with real time video capabilities but always saw the limitations of fix wing
I am by no means a builder and do lack the time and patience to build but maybe this winter I can knuckle down.
Now my questions.
I have researched within Quadcopters and Buzzflyers, the platforms available.
My budget looks like a Hex Mikrokopter. (Self build)
On looking at a number of Videos.

• How is the stability achieved. Electronics, good setup, or calm days. (Can I have a auto hover set up like the AR Drone out of the box)
• How is programming achieved. a PC program, user guide, manual input to my TX.
• Can I use my Spektrum Dx7i and receivers
• What platform should I go for? I know it's a big question but I suppose the controller, build quality and after sales support are the key things to look at..or am I wrong. MikroKopter does look the business payload but are they a one man band?
• How are GPS capabilities acheived, i.e. how are waypoints, return to home, stay where you are, return home on loss of signal etc plumbed in. Again a PC program?
• How is telemetry recorded and sent back, again a program?.
• Being a Solutions Architect in IT, has anyone looked at a "Rescue Chute" facility to save the £££££ in the event of catastrophic failure to rotors? If not I will do it..

As with all these things experience and patience is the key no doubt. At my age I have rushed in so many times but experience is now on my side so seeking advice is the first thing i will do.

Look forward to hearing from you and happy flying.

Phil
BTW I have 4 acres of Wood and grassland so if anyone want to come and practice and show me the way it is, you are welcome.

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Marshyman, welcome to the club. Flight controllers are a personal preference as well as the frame, motors and escs you will be using. I have an MK that several years ago I was in love with. At the time it really was the only real game in town and you put up with the lack of service and support from Hogar and friends. The support and ease of set up has gotten better. However, there are others that have raised the bar.

To your questions specifically,

• Most FC's handle the stability through gyros, accelerometers, baro sensors and GPS. So the electronics take care of a lot of the flying. In manual mode you only have gyros and your piloting skills are the stability control. Just like you have with your single rotor heli.
• The MK and others use a PC program connected through the USB port to program the FC. Some of the newer controllers are using Android phones to program over wifi. In my opinion they are not quite commercial grade. But some like them. The advantage of the MK is it is a mature platform with a large user base. The disadvantage is that the product support is still lacking and uses an i2c bus for the escs. Other FC's allow you to use more standard escs. You can see the cost of a MK BLC 2.0 vs other 30a escs. Big difference.
• You can use a 7 channel for some functions, but an 8 channel or more is better. I have a 9 channel and sometimes wish for some more switches and channels.
• Some of the guys here use Cinestar frames and are very happy with them. They are pricey but well made. There are a lot of frames out there and the price varies from $40 to close to $2000 and from Quad to Octo. For starters I would get a good quad or small hexa frame. There will be a learning curve and some crashes along the way. Better to learn on something not so expensive to repair than something that will cost you an arm and a leg just for a replacement arm.
• For waypoints and telemetry you will need a wireless connection. I use Xbee's on my MK to connect using 900mHz. It works fine. The return to home function can be programed into the transmitter. Waypoints and telemetry have to be done with a computer in the field.
• The MK has an SD card that can record information during flight to trouble shoot should something go wrong.
• Yes there are folks that have explored parachutes for their multi rotors. Most don't fly with them however.

A patient build, especially with the MK and a good soldering station is key with the MK. You have to look out for those little soldering whiskers and check under magnification for any defects before you power up and get the magic white smoke. I bought a regulated power supply just for testing rather than fry my electronics.

All that being said, would I build an MK again, not likely. I have found that the DJI WKM and Naza-GPS to give me all the performance that I am looking for in a more reasonable package. No building of the FC, Distribution Ring or BLC. Do a price comparison and see what you think. Some like it, some don't. I have 2 of the Naza-GPS, 1 WKM with Data Link and the MK with Xbee and MD-1 gimbal.

Have fun!

 

[DennyR]

I think that is great advice Ed. Go with the simple options. No open plan electronics. Use tried and tested components direct from the manufacturer only

 

[quadcopters]

Hi Phil . And welcome to MRF
Telling the wife is no easy task but many do have various techniques for getting "clearance" such as saying its much cheaper than really is Or its an essential work tool but I guess excuses depend on the wife lol.
I am more than happy to discuss different platforms with you in length , but just from sales statistics alone the MK systems are not anywhere near as popular as they were say a year ago .
As Ed says in his post the Mk systems can be daunting if planning on building yourself , and there as been many occasions where we have had attempted builds sent to us to put right because of bad soldering or they cannot get the software set up.
There is very little in the way of support for MK systems and most problems you will find will be blamed at the end user for bad soldering , cold joints etc etc . But there is a wiki for MK and a forum and if you can get through the build and set up they are a very good system but also many users experience random errors and faults appearing .

Personally in my own fleet , now standing at 8 machines ranging from small F450 to Cinestar 8 -360 and Droidworx Y6 , DJI S800 they all are now fitted out with DJI Controllers mostly the Wookong M but the very small F450 have nazas.
You can have telemetry and click and go for a good price now on these systems and we find them to behave extremely well .
Some people say the Wookong systems are not good in the wind but we have had big platforms flying in serious winds so it is all down to the set up , Prop size , Gains , payload etc etc .

But before you splash out on a expensive system the F450 naza kit is a great learning platform and spares are cheap so its a good choice for a starter set up and they can easily carry the gopro camera.

As said your welcome to speak with me about the systems available , if I am busy with a customer when you call leave a message with Liz for me to call you back as we are extremely busy at the moment.

Geoff

 

[Droider]

Aye Up Marshyman. Welcome to MRF.

My budget looks like a Hex Mikrokopter. (Self build)

Personally I would not recommend building this unless you are really familiar with soldering lost of fiddly bits. BUT if you have made the decision to go MK then PM me. I have a fully built Hexa stack including XL dis board with coolers and professionally built. The FC and nav are the latest and have only a few hours on them. I also have a Graupner MX22 with the jeti telemetry and loads of spares I will do you for a very good price..

Of all the dealers in the uk if you want a guy who rally knows what he is doing its Geoff at QC uk. I am slightly biased because he only lives a few miles from me and we have become good friends but that friend ship has come about because of his passion to do things right.

If you want to buy a frame off him I could help you out with your build

Dave

 

[Droider]

Just seen Geoff has posted as I typed.. Aye Up geoff happy anniversary! Treat the important bird to a nice day... I am still stuck where I was yesterday but at least I have managed to get my iPhone tethered with 3G!

Dave

 

[Marshyman]

As I found, a great place for advice and thanks for the warm welcome?
So from the advice I looked through the Dji site and links. It seems a well setup business and reviews seem promising . I must admit the s800 looks just the thing for me with plug and fly platform for me to add to and it packs up easily, but again is this too much to start?. Any pitfalls as it is all integrated?

So looking thru Dji,s portfolio a 450, 550 and s800 would be a good start with FC and gps. Can some one confirm is the NAza range "hobby" and what is the differences with wookong.
My only niggle with starting to small is, as I found with rc fixed wing, you move thru the models wanting greater spec so fast there is a trail of dead money.
Dave your Mk sounds interesting but I think I will go Dji to start. Thanks

What about a second user rig. Geoff if you have some thoughts they would be appreciated.

Again thanks everyone. Anyone doing one to one training including programming for beginners

Best
Phil

 

[Droider]

Doh.... thought I may have been able to dump my MK stuff on a newb so they learned the hard way!

Phil.. go with a Nazza 450.. you won't grow out of it because its a great little bird to fly.. If you want a sammer test rig for bigger craft then get one with the WKM.. a little expensive but i use mine as a tester sue new firmware etc.. I have three MR and the one with way more hours on it than all of um is the F450 WKM. I did a bukd thread some where.. Ill see if `i can find it.. I am sure Geoff will give you all the best recommendations though..

Best luck Dave

PS ANY die hard MK users out there want bloody MK stuff! ;-)

Link to my F450 build

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1377-Droiders-WMK-F460-frame-build

 

[Marshyman]

Hi Droider
Just found your Youtube page and by-eck you guys know your stuff. Very impressive.

Interestingly I can see the potential for a side line where I live for farmers and game-keepers. I note there is a requirement for CAA approval.

What was the rig used for the Lapland shoot. Very impressive.
Do you go for all the GPS and Waypoint elements or hands on.
Oh and what is a good budget for FPV?.
Geoff, standby for the phone call.

Best
Phil

 

[yakjock]

Good advice form Geoff & Droider i wiil ad my +1 to doing business with Geoff quadcopters i have an F450 with Naza +GPS & an F550 with Wookong both fly great.