CineStar 6 WKM build
- Thread starter RTRyder
- Start date
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
Yep thems um.. he also just taken deliver of the 2217/20 equivilents.. off to get mine for my WKM quad tomorrow! Ill post the pics
Dave
Hijacked slightly..??? Can't imagine what it would be like if you went all out...
The AXI motors arrived today so now I have all the pieces, just have to put them all together. I'm still thinking about the wiring, I may just reuse the power board that I had in the Y6 though it will take a bit of modification to fit it inside the inner standoffs for the battery trays. The other option is to just fab a harness from heavy wire and since I have to do a soldering session to hook up the motors to the ESCs it wouldn't be that much more effort to put one together.
I'll probably start with the distribution board and if I don't like how it fits I'll just build a harness from scratch, stay tuned...
Ken
quadcopters
Quadcopters.co.uk Drone Specialists
Initial Settings used were in the 130's with approx 150 on Yaw and 140 on Altitude . These are figures of memory as the cinestar is not with me at the moment.
Attitude reduced to 85% but might need to play with this a bit more.
Also throttle curve adjusted to give a steeper curve , Expo was at 45% but that felt a little tame with attitude at 85% .
It was very gusty on the maiden , we get all the nice weather here but hoping for more testing and tweaking in the next day or so .
Geoff
Attitude reduced to 85% but might need to play with this a bit more.
Also throttle curve adjusted to give a steeper curve , Expo was at 45% but that felt a little tame with attitude at 85% .
It was very gusty on the maiden , we get all the nice weather here
but hoping for more testing and tweaking in the next day or so . Geoff
The 2814-22 short shaft version with the long wires, if I remember right they're about the same KV rating as the Avroto I was using on the Y6. I will be using 4S initially because I already have them, might go to 5S later to see what the difference is. I'm also starting with 12 x 3.8 APC props and might go to 13 inch depending on how the first flights go but one thing I've noticed about the WKM is that it really isn't happy if the motors are over-propped so best to start on the small side.
I would have stayed with the Avroto motors but the ones I have aren't the short shaft version and I didn't feel like diassembling them to shorten the existing shafts to fit the CS, something I will only do on a metal lathe. I wouldn't worry too much about low KV, I've seen the DJI techies recommend using 500 - 600 KV motors which to me is way too low, but who knows maybe they do work well...
Ken
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
thanks were you flying in manual or attitude mode. Up to now i had the feeling that a throttle curve for attitude mode would not really do i difference since WKM interprets its altitude hold hover point take off point by itself. Or does the curve come in action at the moment you are a bit over altitude hold ?
Initial Settings used were in the 130's with approx 150 on Yaw and 140 on Altitude . These are figures of memory as the cinestar is not with me at the moment.
Attitude reduced to 85% but might need to play with this a bit more.
Also throttle curve adjusted to give a steeper curve , Expo was at 45% but that felt a little tame with attitude at 85% .
It was very gusty on the maiden , we get all the nice weather here
Geoff
I've been using basic gains of 200 to 300% on my Y6 with lower than 80% ATTI and three different TX flight modes with varying degrees of expo and travel. The smoothest flight mode is at 45% expo but with travel limited to no more than 75% on pitch and roll. Makes for really nice video but very numb control response so don't try those settings in windy conditions or without having at least one other mode setup on the same switch with less expo and full travel on both axis.
The high basic gains are required to get a decent amount of GPS position hold, I've found the big multis need that much if you plan to use GPS, less and it just wanders all over the sky with the lower ATTI settings. If it's windy I crank the disturbed gains all the way up to max at 200% and lower the ATTI to around 65% and it actually is almost as stable as my Droidworx AD6 with MK stack.
One thing is certain, I've had the WKM on a number of different frames so far and every one of them required different settings to fly the same as the others, so use these as general guidelines and not an absolute.
Ken
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GGoodrum
Member
Regarding motors, are there any versions in this size with lower kVs, like down around 450-500? I'm thinking that it would make more sense to run these at higher voltages, like at least 6s, but maybe even 8s. Years ago, when the first electric helis were appearing, they used NiCd pacs, which were fairly low voltage. Then, when the first LIpos came out, the setups were still geared towards those lower voltage NiCd configurations. It took awhile, but a number of us pushed forward with much higher voltage setups, but finding controllers that would work above 25V was difficult. Eventually, CC came out with their HV line, that allows up to 12s.
Anyway, I'm guessing the same sort of move in voltage will start happening in the MR world as well, especially on larger setups, such as these big CS machines.
-- Gary
Anyway, I'm guessing the same sort of move in voltage will start happening in the MR world as well, especially on larger setups, such as these big CS machines.
-- Gary
Using very low KV valued motors(around 450-500 KV) with a 4s battery are somewhat not very practical for multirotors. You will need to put very big prop on lower KV motor to get the same amount of lift that you can get with higher KV/smaller prop.
This means:
* You will need longer arms in order to avoid prop collision.
* You will have hard time finding big prop with CW/CCW combination.
I'd go for a motor lower than 550-600KV if 4s battery is going to be used. (In my case, I have lots of 4s batteries so I can't afford 5s/6s battery at this time).
For instance, I'm running Tiger Motor MT2826 /KV550 on a Y6 setup. I had to put 15x6 prop to get a 5.8 AUW copter fly comfortably. With 13x6 prop, I had to put the gas to %85 to hover it which is not very nice.
This means:
* You will need longer arms in order to avoid prop collision.
* You will have hard time finding big prop with CW/CCW combination.
I'd go for a motor lower than 550-600KV if 4s battery is going to be used. (In my case, I have lots of 4s batteries so I can't afford 5s/6s battery at this time).
For instance, I'm running Tiger Motor MT2826 /KV550 on a Y6 setup. I had to put 15x6 prop to get a 5.8 AUW copter fly comfortably. With 13x6 prop, I had to put the gas to %85 to hover it which is not very nice.
GGoodrum
Member
Huh? :apathy: The whole point of my post is to not run a "normal" lower voltage 4s setup, but instead use 6s or even 8s.
-- Gary
Droider
Drone Enthusiast
Hi ALL..
I cant help but notice that Kens thread has been hijacked a little and is wandering off..I would like for this thread to continue as what it is titled. As we all know Ken spends a lot of time detailing his builds to the advantage of us all.. so back to you Ken..
For all other stuff on WMK / Cinestar builds I have started a new thread here
Thanks everyone for contributing
http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1417-WMK-Cinestar-6-amp-8-builds
Dave
I cant help but notice that Kens thread has been hijacked a little and is wandering off..I would like for this thread to continue as what it is titled. As we all know Ken spends a lot of time detailing his builds to the advantage of us all.. so back to you Ken..
For all other stuff on WMK / Cinestar builds I have started a new thread here
Thanks everyone for contributing
http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1417-WMK-Cinestar-6-amp-8-builds
Dave
GGoodrum
Member
Hello Garry,
I was trying to give some extra info incase beginners are reading these topics
Cheers.
Ah, okay. Makes sense now.
<off to the new thread...>
Progress is being made, slowly...
I wish I had the time to just sit down and finish it but unfortunately things aren't working out that way at the moment. I have decided on how the power is going to be handled and here's the beginnings of the system...
The power board at the center is one of Minsoo Kims units and the same one I was using in the previous hex/Y6. I had to notch it to fit within the standoffs for the battery trays but a quick and easy fix with a Dremel. Once again the board was chosen for the spacing of the mounting holes which also happen to be exactly the right spacing to fit on the standoffs where the MK flight controller would normally sit. I reversed the mounting of the ESCs from the original setup to solder the feed wires directly to the power board so now the motor connections come in from the outboard edge. The motor leads are encased in spiral wrap end to end and twisted inside to reduce the possibility of interference with the WKM electronics, they have enough RFI to deal with among themselves. With the flight control deck in place you can just see the ends of the ESCs peaking out from underneath...
The power board sits half way between the top center plate and the plate holding the flight controller, easy to do using the same size standoff top and bottom side of the board. There's still plenty of space even with the motor wires going over the top of the ESC, if cooling becomes an issue I'll cut some heatsinks on the mill and glue them to the tops pf the FETs. I doubt that will be a problem where I live as it seldom gets above the high 80 degree range even in the middle of the summer and I've yet to have an ESC heat related problem on any of my multis...
The AXI motors have been mounted on all 6 arms and now all I need to do is cut a small amount off the ends of the wires and solder on the connectors. Each time I do a set of wires I also do the necessary trimming on the ESC wires and mount them as well. If I can get the remainder of the wires done tonight I may be able to do an initial test flight of just the frame and WKM sometime tomorrow, if all goes well then the AV130 will be the next and then it's video test flight time. I'm going to try using the last gain settings the Y6 was using for the CS maiden flight, they shouldn't be very far off although I suspect the CS without anything hanging off the bottom is likely to weigh a bit less than the metal armed Y6 did, still shouldn't have a huge effect on the flight. If I feel it needs to be adjusted I'll get the rest of the bits in place first so I'm working with the final RTF configuration. For the first flights I'll be using either these props or their plastic equivalents, 12 x 3.8...
I've found the WKM to be a bit fussy about prop size and loading, if they're too big for the motors to change speed quickly or not loaded enough for the weight at take off then there tends to be some amount of wobble that just will not go away. That drove me crazy in the early days of flying the WKM when I had first moved it to the Y6 frame and was using 12 inch props, a swap to 11 x 5 Graupner props made a HUGE difference in stability, I'm wondring if the same will be true with the CS frame. I guess I'll find out soon enough...
Ken
I wish I had the time to just sit down and finish it but unfortunately things aren't working out that way at the moment. I have decided on how the power is going to be handled and here's the beginnings of the system...
The power board at the center is one of Minsoo Kims units and the same one I was using in the previous hex/Y6. I had to notch it to fit within the standoffs for the battery trays but a quick and easy fix with a Dremel. Once again the board was chosen for the spacing of the mounting holes which also happen to be exactly the right spacing to fit on the standoffs where the MK flight controller would normally sit. I reversed the mounting of the ESCs from the original setup to solder the feed wires directly to the power board so now the motor connections come in from the outboard edge. The motor leads are encased in spiral wrap end to end and twisted inside to reduce the possibility of interference with the WKM electronics, they have enough RFI to deal with among themselves. With the flight control deck in place you can just see the ends of the ESCs peaking out from underneath...
The power board sits half way between the top center plate and the plate holding the flight controller, easy to do using the same size standoff top and bottom side of the board. There's still plenty of space even with the motor wires going over the top of the ESC, if cooling becomes an issue I'll cut some heatsinks on the mill and glue them to the tops pf the FETs. I doubt that will be a problem where I live as it seldom gets above the high 80 degree range even in the middle of the summer and I've yet to have an ESC heat related problem on any of my multis...
The AXI motors have been mounted on all 6 arms and now all I need to do is cut a small amount off the ends of the wires and solder on the connectors. Each time I do a set of wires I also do the necessary trimming on the ESC wires and mount them as well. If I can get the remainder of the wires done tonight I may be able to do an initial test flight of just the frame and WKM sometime tomorrow, if all goes well then the AV130 will be the next and then it's video test flight time. I'm going to try using the last gain settings the Y6 was using for the CS maiden flight, they shouldn't be very far off although I suspect the CS without anything hanging off the bottom is likely to weigh a bit less than the metal armed Y6 did, still shouldn't have a huge effect on the flight. If I feel it needs to be adjusted I'll get the rest of the bits in place first so I'm working with the final RTF configuration. For the first flights I'll be using either these props or their plastic equivalents, 12 x 3.8...
I've found the WKM to be a bit fussy about prop size and loading, if they're too big for the motors to change speed quickly or not loaded enough for the weight at take off then there tends to be some amount of wobble that just will not go away. That drove me crazy in the early days of flying the WKM when I had first moved it to the Y6 frame and was using 12 inch props, a swap to 11 x 5 Graupner props made a HUGE difference in stability, I'm wondring if the same will be true with the CS frame. I guess I'll find out soon enough...
Ken
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
thanks for doing this. I am right behind you if it works out. My hex is more or less the same dimensions as the CS 6. I'm hoping my avrotos with 12x3.8's is an agreeable combo to the WKM as that is working great as it is right now.
GGoodrum
Member
I too am right behind you Ken. My CS 6 frameset was shipped yesterday. I'm going to try a 6s setup, if I can find the right motors and ESCs. BTW, which ESCs are you using? Also, what props again? What is the MtM distance on this beast?
Anyway, yours is looking great. I can't wait to see how it flies.
-- Gary
I'm going to try a 6s setup, if I can find the right motors and ESCs. BTW, which ESCs are you using? Also, what props again? What is the MtM distance on this beast?Anyway, yours is looking great. I can't wait to see how it flies.
-- Gary
I too am right behind you Ken. My CS 6 frameset was shipped yesterday.
Anyway, yours is looking great. I can't wait to see how it flies.
-- Gary
According to my tape measure 32.5 inches or roughly 825mm motor to motor. I'm using the same ESCs that were on the Y6, 30amp DYS. As for the props I haven't quite got that far yet although I'm planning to start with 12 x 3.8 and go from there after I see how the WKM reacts.
Ken
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
well get on it, we are desperate and running out of popcorn!