Phobotic Centerpiece Brushless Gimbal Controller

[jfro]

Max speed and max accels are limiters, not factors. This means that if your rigidity is very low (like 10), max speed and accel won't change anything. But if you're operating on high rigidity, you can use both to tailor the follow behavior to your liking. Max accel will limit the rate the speed changes, while max speed will limit the maximal speed of the axis. Anyway, they are both dependent on the rigidity being high enough to actually bump into the limiters.

Samur. Good Job on the controller. Going to be a learning curve, but liking what I'm getting so far. Hope your coder stays healthy, can't wait for more updates.

Sorry, but I'm still not sure what to do on my yaw settings. With high rigidity, to speed up the yaw catching up to the frame, what am I doing with the limit sliders. I'm trying to reduce the lag time that it starts to follow the frame. I want it smooth, but not lagging behind too much.

Your tech guy suggested I had the rigidity too high and had me lower it to 80 from 105 and also up the speed which I did from 18 to 50. From my previous settings, this didn't work as good for what I'm trying to accomplish.

I'm going to try a quick flight with rigidity back up at 105. I don't want to limit the speed or acceleration, so maybe I should be setting those lower, not higher?

Thanks for your help, and again, good job.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Sorry, but I'm still not sure what to do on my yaw settings. With high rigidity, to speed up the yaw catching up to the frame, what am I doing with the limit sliders. I'm trying to reduce the lag time that it starts to follow the frame. I want it smooth, but not lagging behind too much.

Then reduce the delay by a half, it will help.

If you don't want the speed/accel limiters, set them to maximum (they determine the max allowable speed).
An axis with 100 degrees/second of movement will be 10 times as quick as one with 10 degrees/seconds limiter.

I advise you to keep some acceleration limiter in there as it will reduce the chance of pole skipping and going to recovery in the air. That can happen with too aggressive follow settings.

 

[SamurAchzar]

An update about our 3S limitation: http://forums.phobotic.com/forum/ma...essage-for-centerpiece-owners-solution-inside

 

[swartzracing]

Hey Jfro,

What gimbal are you running?

Cheers,

 

[jfro]

Hey Jfro,

What gimbal are you running?

Cheers,

Brand spanking new DYS BLG5D. It's modified with 60mm motors on roll and yaw. It appears to be pretty solid, although I think my roll setup on my DIY gimbal using 21mm carbon fiber is more solid on the roll as I have better bearing support on the roll bar. I was also just a few ozs lighter. The DYS is new so it's tight, but not sure how long that will last. I also like the camera cage setup. Much better than what I was using before. My DIY was only 2 axis with snow coming, I didn't have time to build a 3rd axis, so bought the DYS. Very happy with it so far.
[h=1][/h]

 

[swartzracing]

Its funny, I almost pulled the trigger on that gimbal, but instead went with the quad frame gimbal. I couldn't find any reviews on it and didn't want to be a beta tester. Glad that its working goof for you, DYS actually makes nice stuff. Their motors run really good bearings too. Keep us updated with your gimbal etc.

Cheers,

 

[Av8Chuck]

Its funny, I almost pulled the trigger on that gimbal, but instead went with the quad frame gimbal. I couldn't find any reviews on it and didn't want to be a beta tester. Glad that its working goof for you, DYS actually makes nice stuff. Their motors run really good bearings too. Keep us updated with your gimbal etc.

Cheers,

How well do you like the Quadframe gimbal? Is it a 2 or 3 axis and are you using this controller with it?

 

[jfro]

Its funny, I almost pulled the trigger on that gimbal, but instead went with the quad frame gimbal. I couldn't find any reviews on it and didn't want to be a beta tester. Glad that its working goof for you, DYS actually makes nice stuff. Their motors run really good bearings too. Keep us updated with your gimbal etc.

Cheers,

I am looking for a yaw setup for my DIY gimbal. Going to waite awhile and see if what I have is strong enough for my gh4 and 5d. If so, I'll probably buy the 3rd axis from Quad frame. That looks like one of the most robust setups I've seen. I'm really freaking hung up about hanging everything from one small shaft.

I'd like to see a flange come off the motor with a hollowed out 1/2" or so aluminum fitting that attaches to the the motor with 3 screws and has a shaft of maybe 3/8 or 1/2" aluminum threaded at the other end. Slap a nice wide bearing on it. Then a hollowed out bolt with slip ring. I'd feel a whole lot better than a small shaft with frigging tiny set screws....

Since I put the new gimbal on, I spend a few extra seconds landing so it can be as gentle as possible.

Your the 2nd person this week who's ordered that gimbal. Look forward to hearing how you like it and seeing some samples.

 

[jfro]

Spent a little time at the other forum on the Centerpiece. What a drama mess. Hopefully we can get enough peeps on this forum to discuss and help out on this controller. I'm cautiously optimistic and excited about the possibilities. Hopefully they will be able to move fast on improving the firmware with features and solidifying it. I bought it knowing the risk of being a first / beta type user.

I'm experimenting with settings but also my procedure. Had mixed results yesterday regarding my procedure. Had a couple flights with horizon issues which were noticeable after take off. Landed and reinitialized and it was all good. I was setting it up with absolute stillness and levelness, then turning it off via the #1 button, then moving the copter to a more open less level take off area for gps lock. I'd then turn on my camera and start recording, then plug in the main power to MR, and then start up the controller again with the #1 button. Worked some of the time but not all. Going to keep testing it to see if it's me, the feature of initializing then turning off and back on, or maybe something else.

So far, my flights have been 4-7 minute test flights. Except for 2 flights where it didn't get off the ground with a level horizon, I'm more than satisfied with the footage. Hopefully, sometime soon, I can get some 12 minute flights.

Am noticing that my 3s battery is probably not enough. (using 2 60mm and 1 50mm motor) It's ok to about 3.8v. It might be I need to dial down the gains a bit.

It's 38 F here right now. Charging 4 batteries and going to go do a couple quick flights and see how it works in the cold.

 

[Motopreserve]

JFRO: It's certainly devolving into drama rapidly. I too recognized the early-adopter pitfalls, but was willing to see if this board could provide a quicker path to "close" and then allow for fine-tuning.

This segment of the market really has created a fever-pitch clamor for better tunability - and it seems to me that despite some of the features that need adding/tweaking in subsequent firmware updates, the basic auto-tune has been a huge leap forward. I have experience far better results with a single push of the button than I ever did with 30+ hours on an AM board. Maybe this was my lack of tuning skill, perhaps it was a flaw in the gimbal. Who knows? But to have usable footage ( for me) on the first flight was impressive, and a welcome relief....

 

[SamurAchzar]

What's going on the other forum is a complete disgrace. I am not proud in my participation, but then again it was/is our primary marketing channel for now and we can not let it be drowned by those who seek to damage us.

The only upside is that we got a HUGE amount of support and backing (private and public) from our customers and we even had a spike in our orders overnight!

We are, of course, on track to providing improvements next week.

Just to let you know we're here for the very long run. We will even surprise you.

Roee

 

[Motopreserve]

Roee, it is encouraging to see you over here on MRF as well. While I understand the audience is vast on the other forum, and as a start-up is required - maybe we can provide a more positive, feedback-from-experience driven thread here.

Plainly put, maybe that thread can act as a how-to: for how to photoshop lines onto pics, and this could be about how to actually avoid drift if you happen to experience that

so far your response time has been impressive for issues that arise. I would hate to see your energy sucked up by the trolls that may begin with legitimate concerns, but descend into all out nonsense. Different stokes obviously, but some talk to hear themselves talk, I personally talk to get some answers and improve the performance of my gear!

 

[eirlink]

shocking to read over there for sure. in here is much more civilized and professional

ive supported you from the start and want to say youve promoted yourself and your product superbly
and your level of support is exemplary.

im not sure if the CP, phobotic support or both is the game changer !
stay with it sir.good job

What's going on the other forum is a complete disgrace. I am not proud in my participation, but then again it was/is our primary marketing channel for now and we can not let it be drowned by those who seek to damage us.

The only upside is that we got a HUGE amount of support and backing (private and public) from our customers and we even had a spike in our orders overnight!

We are, of course, on track to providing improvements next week.

Just to let you know we're here for the very long run. We will even surprise you.

Roee

 

[Hexacrafter]

I find it truly amazing that some have nothing better to do with their time than harrass, bully or try to distroy those that are honest, hard working and trying their best to make a change for the good of this industry. I have had contact with Roee for almost a year. He is a truly upstanding individual and has worked VERY hard to offer us something better than the alternatives. I am open to the fact that that each person is entitled to a opinion, but this does not allow one to be abusive or destructive in their comments.
I stopped viewing the thread on that other forum after requesting Moderator intervention... some time ago....
If no one is posting there, then the bully will go away and attack someone else.
I also find it amazing how some do not realize how far we have come in 4+ years in the Multicopter Arena..... I am amazed by the advances in all of the equipment.... competition is healthy as it forces manufacturers to keep improving..... but there is not justification or excuse for behaving in such an attacking manner.
Bart & this forum as well as that at Phobotic are far better suited to a healthy discussion with mutual respect.
Thanks Bart!
As with any new technology, it will take some time to find all of the diverse issues. As an Engineer, I know that even with the best internal testing, the real world test will throw you some curves.
I am VERY excited with the Centerpiece and Phobotic has convienced me that they are dedicated to being the best.
Just my thoughts...
Andrew

 

[SamurAchzar]

Agreed Andrew. The conduct at *** is a directly inverse to the positive atmosphere we're trying to maintain with our users. But good always triumphs

Meanwhile -
http://forums.phobotic.com/forum/ma...otic-for-fixed-wing-application?p=837#post837

 

[jfro]

Went to a barbecue tonight and went a little early to test horizon. Did a auto tune on Wed. Worked on yaw settings.

This is nothing but horizon test. Forward, backwards with a little yaw here and there and the same with left and right.

2 - 3 min + flights about 20 minutes apart. Plug in centerpiece, when it's ready, then start camera, then plug in MR and go. Orig footage, just output at 30p at low res for speed. Not looking at quality, just horizon. No post stab, color correct etc.

Footage was 60 p, gh4, 14mm, on x8. Gimbal has 60mm roll & yaw and 50mm pitch motors. Couple time legs got in way, but that's something I have to live with for a while.

 

[jfro]

When I first looked at the footage, I was pretty happy with the horizon. After horizontal peeping with lines drawn, I was a little less happy. Then I though about "horizontal peeping", how picky should we be? What does the Movi do? So spent 30 minutes this morning going through vimeo Movi showreels and footage, grabbing frames and drawing lines.

Found a few that had great horizon throughout, however, found many videos where horizon is out abit here and there. Some of the showreels may or may not have edited out bad horizon shots. I don't know any one with a Movi, so can't ask them.

Anyway, I saw enough horizons being off on parts of their clips on the Movi m5 and m10 clips. (prob about 80% were off, best guess, of which many were hand held which I think is a little less stressful on the gimbal). Movi isn't spot on all the time either.

While not perfect, I feel like I'm making good progress with the Centerpiece after just 3 days. Maybe some extra tuning will tighten the horizon up a bit. See no reason at this point to put my old controller back up. Definitely a step up.

 

[ovdt]

The horizon on Movi also drifts when moving fast and panning.

I also did my first flight test with CPHV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T32MYBZIJY

Before flying BMCC 4K, I did a small test with Canon 5D MK III. The gimbal is Cinestar style converted 3-axis gimbal. Specs:

Tilt motor: 8108
Roll motor: 8017
Pan motor: GB100
Gimbal weight: 2.7kg


Autotune on 1328 doesn't work for me, so I reverted back to 1327 for auto tuning, and then upgraded to 1328 to make RC controls work. Still I'm having Sbus issues, until it's figrued out I'm using PWM for RC. Pitch control has a slight issue which described here: http://forums.phobotic.com/forum/main-category/main/488-sbus-issue#post760

I changed some settings after AutoTune. Auto Tune values are working %95 for me. I had some vibrations when tilting down 60-70 degrees so I had to lower Dampening P value around %25. So it solved the vibration issues on different gimbal angles. I also lowered this value for roll and yaw around %10.

I think, Centerpiece controllers are far more superior than Alexmos; I couldn't get this kind of result with my 8 different Alexmos boards. The result I got is very very acceptable for me. Only pitch control issue has to be resolved for me than the gimbal is ready for prime time. The issue about pitch movement I mentioned in the other post exists in the flight also even we don't touch the RC sticks. To see this issue look at these times:

00:15-00:16
2:18-2:20
2:44-2:47
4:05-4:08

The stabilization is working pretty well, and I'm quite happy with my first test flight.

 

[jfro]

I changed some settings after AutoTune. Auto Tune values are working %95 for me. I had some vibrations when tilting down 60-70 degrees so I had to lower Dampening P value around %25. So it solved the vibration issues on different gimbal angles. I also lowered this value for roll and yaw around %10.

The stabilization is working pretty well, and I'm quite happy with my first test flight.

That's my next project, getting my pitch smoothed out... Think Ill try your the 25% or so dampening reduction.

Nice first flight.

 

[Bartman]

Hi guys,
I'm on the road but had the chance to sit down with Roee from Phobotic this afternoon. We chatted for almost forty minutes and GOT THE WHOLE EXCHANGE ON VIDEO! I'll post it tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon after I've had a chance to upload it to youtube. We had a nice chat and covered a lot of ground. I think you'll find it both interesting and reassuring. I did a quick look at the footage and there's some scenery in there that we didn't exactly plan for!
Bart