Old Man
Active Member
A lot of extremely good, and equally valid points have been brought up in the preceding posts, demonstration the many facets of what we are facing. With 45 years as an avid RC fixed wing modeler in genres from RC gliders to gas engine 3d giant scale, 10 years in the military grade UAV industry, and about a year in multi rotors, I can state FPV isn't much of an issue but the altitude limits are. You can't perform manyvertical maneuvers without breaking 400' AGL flying giant scale RC, and RC glider thermal duration and Free Flight activity is effectively eliminated. So it's more than just FPV video at stake here.
Full scale manned aviation has airspace right of way regardless of the altitude being flown. That's the rules, has been the rules, and the FAA made them a long time ago. The FAA is in all likelihood not going to alter that way it has been doing things for the last 50 years. They will simply force anyone new coming into airspace activity to comply with the rules as they already are. The FAA will simply define a new niche for them to fit into. There is no such thing as personal, private airspace. The FAA owns all of it, everywhere inside the U.S., the moment something breaks contact with terra firma. I was involved in some extensive legal activity years back where that fact was made quite clear. If manned aviation breaks the law and flies below the 500' unpopulated airspace rule, they still have the right of way. There have already been numerous publicized events where unmanned "toys" have gotten quite close to passenger airliners. Several reports of MR type aircraft have been made near approach and departure corridors at airports. There have been several, meaning more than 5, collisions between sUAS and military aircraft in the air and on the ground overseas. War zones and military airport in Europe.
That we will be stuck with line of sight rules is pretty much a given unless we are flying a "certificated" aircraft using approved avionics suites and telemetry ground stations. I've been employed by one of the companies doing this inside U.S. airspace for quite some time. From their perspective it would be better if RC modeling activities went away, and the rules being generated regarding equipment will to a large extent help make that happen unless we become very, very loud in an organized manner. We'll probably have to promote our own vision of an altitude limit, along with specific areas where higher activities could be conducted. I hate to say it but FPV using goggles will likely not be permitted, with or without a spotter. There have already been far too many publicized examples demonstrating how people cannot be trusted to obey even basic safety rules. I can go to a minimum of three You Tube videos right now that depict MR's well above 5,000' AGL, and search for numerous posts in different forums where people have done similar repeatedly, some above 18,000' AGL Once you get in a cloud flight safety issues expand significantly. Manned aviation is only being advised of tracked aircraft to maintain separation, and models of any type without a transponder are invisible to air traffic control. An MR's through the wind screen or into a turbine will be killing someone in the manned aircraft.
So we have issues of our own making. By "our own" I refer to those that buy and fly without any sense of responsibility. Those that believe they can do whatever they want, whenever they want without regard to anyone or anything else. Generally those people are fairly young but the fact is many are not so young they they haven't learned right from wrong. We will only correct these issues through organization. Some limits will have to be placed upon who can purchase what and from where based upon product quality. The importers must take some responsibility and not sell to anyone that has not first become informed of rules, regulations, and personal responsibilities/liability. Some will have to made examples of for the point to get across, which is what the "Trappy" person is to the FAA. He will be the example from which all others will learn the wrath of the federal government and the FAA.
So how do we fix it? As much as I don't like the AMA and how it works in some areas it's still an organized body with about 160,000 members we can use. If enough MR operators join we'd develop a much stronger voice in policies and procedure. If we started our own organization such could act as a leveraging group within a larger body such as the AMA. It would be nice if we could approach groups like the Arplane Owners and Pilots Association and SHOW them how we are doing all we can to prevent being a threat to pilot and passenger safety. Same with Airline Pilots Association. Unfortunately our group has done pretty much the opposite, which is something needing immediate correction. Another issue we have with manned aviation is the fact our operational methods absolutely threaten some of their livelihoods. We have a similar problem with ground based camera crews.
We have some pretty serious issus in front of us and it will take some reaching out to people that may not like what they hear. Some of what I like to call "kiddie forums" will react with pure venom simply because they are filled with extremely immature people possessing a sense of entitlement and overwhelming need for instant gratification. Those same people are largely the ones responsible for the situations we are facing now.
Full scale manned aviation has airspace right of way regardless of the altitude being flown. That's the rules, has been the rules, and the FAA made them a long time ago. The FAA is in all likelihood not going to alter that way it has been doing things for the last 50 years. They will simply force anyone new coming into airspace activity to comply with the rules as they already are. The FAA will simply define a new niche for them to fit into. There is no such thing as personal, private airspace. The FAA owns all of it, everywhere inside the U.S., the moment something breaks contact with terra firma. I was involved in some extensive legal activity years back where that fact was made quite clear. If manned aviation breaks the law and flies below the 500' unpopulated airspace rule, they still have the right of way. There have already been numerous publicized events where unmanned "toys" have gotten quite close to passenger airliners. Several reports of MR type aircraft have been made near approach and departure corridors at airports. There have been several, meaning more than 5, collisions between sUAS and military aircraft in the air and on the ground overseas. War zones and military airport in Europe.
That we will be stuck with line of sight rules is pretty much a given unless we are flying a "certificated" aircraft using approved avionics suites and telemetry ground stations. I've been employed by one of the companies doing this inside U.S. airspace for quite some time. From their perspective it would be better if RC modeling activities went away, and the rules being generated regarding equipment will to a large extent help make that happen unless we become very, very loud in an organized manner. We'll probably have to promote our own vision of an altitude limit, along with specific areas where higher activities could be conducted. I hate to say it but FPV using goggles will likely not be permitted, with or without a spotter. There have already been far too many publicized examples demonstrating how people cannot be trusted to obey even basic safety rules. I can go to a minimum of three You Tube videos right now that depict MR's well above 5,000' AGL, and search for numerous posts in different forums where people have done similar repeatedly, some above 18,000' AGL Once you get in a cloud flight safety issues expand significantly. Manned aviation is only being advised of tracked aircraft to maintain separation, and models of any type without a transponder are invisible to air traffic control. An MR's through the wind screen or into a turbine will be killing someone in the manned aircraft.
So we have issues of our own making. By "our own" I refer to those that buy and fly without any sense of responsibility. Those that believe they can do whatever they want, whenever they want without regard to anyone or anything else. Generally those people are fairly young but the fact is many are not so young they they haven't learned right from wrong. We will only correct these issues through organization. Some limits will have to be placed upon who can purchase what and from where based upon product quality. The importers must take some responsibility and not sell to anyone that has not first become informed of rules, regulations, and personal responsibilities/liability. Some will have to made examples of for the point to get across, which is what the "Trappy" person is to the FAA. He will be the example from which all others will learn the wrath of the federal government and the FAA.
So how do we fix it? As much as I don't like the AMA and how it works in some areas it's still an organized body with about 160,000 members we can use. If enough MR operators join we'd develop a much stronger voice in policies and procedure. If we started our own organization such could act as a leveraging group within a larger body such as the AMA. It would be nice if we could approach groups like the Arplane Owners and Pilots Association and SHOW them how we are doing all we can to prevent being a threat to pilot and passenger safety. Same with Airline Pilots Association. Unfortunately our group has done pretty much the opposite, which is something needing immediate correction. Another issue we have with manned aviation is the fact our operational methods absolutely threaten some of their livelihoods. We have a similar problem with ground based camera crews.
We have some pretty serious issus in front of us and it will take some reaching out to people that may not like what they hear. Some of what I like to call "kiddie forums" will react with pure venom simply because they are filled with extremely immature people possessing a sense of entitlement and overwhelming need for instant gratification. Those same people are largely the ones responsible for the situations we are facing now.
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