My first multi-rotor build specs - will it fly though....

[Beaver2206]

Hello

After a brief lend of a DJI Phantom II, my friend and I knew we had to get in on this. Considering the four figure price tag (when including Camera, gimbal etc...) and a genuine desire to learn more about how they work (men, eh?), we've decided to build our own.

The main aim of the quadcopter is just for fun, with the occasional bit of filming, then eventually FPV. I would like to achieve around 15 minutes upwards of flight time. All this for under £400.

This is my first video with the Phantom that we borrowed at the weekend:

Thanks to some of the learned folks that frequent these forums, a dash of Youtube and a plethora of hobby stockists, we have spec'd the following multi-rotor. The frame has arrived, and I am delighted with it as our first build.

So, I will list the major components and then share some of the queries we have with the build.

Part	Option	Description	Cost (£)	Weight (g)	Origin
ESC (x4)	A	HobbyWing Pentium 30A Brushless Speed Controller ESC for R/C Helicopter Quadcopter - Black	£24.00	108	http://www.dx.com/p/hobbywing-pentium-30a-brushless-speed-controller-esc-for-r-c-helicopter-quadcopter-black-184272#.U0MJSPldVoM
Motors (x4)	A	Turnigy D2836/8 1100KV Brushless Outrunner Motor (EU warehouse)	£40.00	280	http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__34228__Turnigy_D2836_8_1100KV_Brushless_Outrunne r_Motor_EU_warehouse_.html
Battery	A	ZIPPY Flightmax 2800mAh 3S1P 30C	£11.26	231	http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__14057__ZIPPY_Flightmax_2800mAh_3S1P_30C.html
Power Distribution board	A	Hobby King Quadcopter Power Distribution Board	£2.39	27	http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__23140__Hobby_King_Quadcopter_Power_Distribution_ Board.html
Leads	A	10CM Male to Male Servo Lead (JR) 26AWG (10pcs/set)	£3.29	0	https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Fhobbyking.co.uk%2Fhobbykin g%2Fstore%2F__26147__10CM_Male_to_Male_Servo_Lead_ JR_26AWG_10pcs_set_UK_Warehouse_.html&redir_token=e3o0sS_D4XZUJRO6BuqWZKawo2J8MTM5Njk4Nz k2NUAxMzk2OTAxNTY1
GPS	A	DJI Naza-M Lite Multi-Rotor Flight Controller GPS Combo	£130.00	25	http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__51632__DJI_Naza_M_Lite_Multi_Rotor_Flight_Contro ller_GPS_Combo.html
Transmitter	A	FS-TH9X 2.4GHz 9-CH 3" LCD TX Transmitter + RX Receiver Radio Control System	£72.00	0	http://www.dx.com/p/fs-th9x-2-4ghz-9-ch-3-lcd-tx-transmitter-rx-receiver-radio-control-system-8-x-aa-127737#.U0Rn7_ldVoM
Battery Charger	A		£0.00	0
Camera	A	Contour 1020HD	£0.00	148	Already owned
Camera Mount	A	Two Axis Gopro Camera Anti-Vibration Gimble Mount PTZ for DJI Phantom Quadcopter - Black + Red	£13.87	66	http://www.dx.com/p/two-axis-gopro-camera-anti-vibration-gimble-mount-ptz-for-dji-phantom-quadcopter-black-red-224920#.U0Rk3fldVoM
On-board camera	A	Hubsan H107D-A04 5.8Ghz TX + Camera Module for X4 H107D FPV RC Quadcopter - Black	£32.73	7	http://www.dx.com/p/hubsan-h107d-a04-5-8ghz-tx-camera-module-for-x4-h107d-fpv-rc-quadcopter-black-291454#.U0RjhvldVoM
Frame	A	XT-XINTE IRON MAN 650 4-Axis Folding 3K Carbon Fiber Aluminum Tubes Frame Kit TL65B02	£77.00	485	http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JFP7BA8/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item
Propellers	A	Master Airscrew S-2 (Scimitar) propeller 11x7 set of 4	£5.00	68	http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__16044__Master_Airscrew_S_2_Scimitar_propeller_11 x7.html

So, the total weight comes to around 1549g. If I double it and add 20%, then divide by four for each motor, this should mean that the motors need a thrust greater than 851g. Each of the spec'd motor deliver 1130g of thrust with an 11x7 prop. Is this going to be adequate for an all rounder - i.e. not too twitchy though still maneuverable?

As for battery, I am kind of still learning. I believe a 3s would be sufficient, though what would you suggest against these specs?

I intend to fit two cameras to the quad, the 5.8ghz wireless for (very crude) FPV and the gimbal to hold a Contour 1080p camera. I want the option to upgrade to a GoPro at a later date.

Transmitter - HELP, there are so many to choose from, any suggestions

NAZA - This is the big leap for us, though thought it better to go with something that will last us even of some of the other components are switched at a later date. I may in the interests of cost and testing, install a temporary KK2.0 to see how she flies first, they don't seem that expensive.

Stockists - Are there any good stockists for spares and parts in the UK that we should direct our trade at? Hobbyking is fine, though I'd rather support UK business as there is a better chance of after sales support, cheaper postage etc...

Any thoughts on this specification? Some elements I am more comfortable than other, but ultimately, will it fly? will it explode and maim people?

 

[NeilM]

Cool !
Thanks!

 

[PeteDee]

To be honest there is not much in your list I would recommend, mostly just say no.

Pete

 

[Motopreserve]

It looks like you are gong to need to spend some time with eCalc to hone in on your parts/components. I did a quick eCalc and it came up with a hover throttle around 28%. That will change with the additional weight etc, but you ideally should be around 50%.

Couple things that jump out at me...

--Don't bother with the cheap HK power distibution boards. I have had one fail - they are cheap for a reason. Solder your own squid or get a decent PDB.
--People seem to really dislike Zippy batteries. You might want to look at the nano-tech series - which are generally well regarded. Also, you will want something bigger than 2800mah for longer flight times.
--As far as the Flight Controller - you may want to factor in the upgrade to the Naza V2, which would be a more capable, appropriate FC for future builds. It also will have better resale value if you decide the hobby is not for you. You mention trying a KK2.x at first, maybe this would be the move until you are ready to step up to a better quality FC? Skip the intermediate stage of the Naza Lite.
--The camera mount is not a gimbal, as best I can tell. It's just a mount. If you are looking to have a gimbal, save the cash for when you purchase the brushless type.
--As far as the Tx is goes - I don't know much about the TH9X, but i think you can mod them to be offer advanced features. The Taranis is the best bang for the buck out of the box right now - and comes with a full-featured Rx.
--The frame seems to be a direct knock-off of the Tarot 650 Iron Man - which may be a knock-off of something else??? Same price really, so Tarot replacement parts may be more readily available.
--Lastly, skip no-name props and go right for the decent ones. The rate of failure with bad props is discouraging - and the hassle to balance them is a nightmare. Get some APC, HQProps or similar. They are inexpensive and a better investment. You'll want to add in a prop balancer too. Something like the Top-Flite, Dubro or similar.

Don't forget the soldering iron if you don't have one...

Have fun and be safe.

 

[Beaver2206]

Thanks for the feedback, that's really focused where I need to do a little more research. I'll do some calculations on ecalc and post my findings.

Thanks again for taking the time to review!

 

[Beaver2206]

It looks like you are gong to need to spend some time with eCalc to hone in on your parts/components. I did a quick eCalc and it came up with a hover throttle around 28%. That will change with the additional weight etc, but you ideally should be around 50%.

Ok, I still need to work on the battery for longer flight times, though I've punched the numbers into ecalc with 10" blabes rather than 11" and it's come up at Hover throttle of 58% and efficiency of 68%. Does that seem a better option?

 

[Beaver2206]

To be honest there is not much in your list I would recommend, mostly just say no.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I think?

I was hoping fro something a little more constructive in the 'beginner' section of the forum. Please bear in mind that this is my first build, and I am aware that this is not going to be some sort of Pro-level media station, though by building from scratch, I will better understand their workings.

Would you say it is the motors and props that are letting this build down. I am going to revise the battery and have made some alterations on ecalc. Is there anything else I should consider? What components does your main mu;ti-rotor have?

Thanks

Stuart

 

[Motopreserve]

Ok, I still need to work on the battery for longer flight times, though I've punched the numbers into ecalc with 10" blabes rather than 11" and it's come up at Hover throttle of 58% and efficiency of 68%. Does that seem a better option?

Thats better - but keep manipulating the components to try to get it to 50%. The more you work in eCalc - the more you'll get to understand the relationship between battery, ESC, motor and prop.

Are you still basing this on the turnigy motors?

 

[PeteDee]

Thanks Pete, I think?

I was hoping fro something a little more constructive in the 'beginner' section of the forum. Please bear in mind that this is my first build, and I am aware that this is not going to be some sort of Pro-level media station, though by building from scratch, I will better understand their workings.

Would you say it is the motors and props that are letting this build down. I am going to revise the battery and have made some alterations on ecalc. Is there anything else I should consider? What components does your main mu;ti-rotor have?

Thanks

Stuart

Apologies if the answer seemed somewhat short but in the last two weeks on this forum there has a a couple of build lists that have had similar quality items to your list and the same advice has been given then as now to get the builders heading in the right direction.

Cheers

Pete

 

[Beaver2206]

Apologies if the answer seemed somewhat short but in the last two weeks on this forum there has a a couple of build lists that have had similar quality items to your list and the same advice has been given then as now to get the builders heading in the right direction.

Cheers

Pete

Thanks Pete, No harm done. I have been trawling through some of the current and older threads, though with such little knowledge comes insecurity with some of the similarities around components. Parts in some of the lists just seem completely different to me. I'm sure with time and research my comfort levels will increase.

Thanks and see you around

 

[Beaver2206]

Thats better - but keep manipulating the components to try to get it to 50%. The more you work in eCalc - the more you'll get to understand the relationship between battery, ESC, motor and prop.

Are you still basing this on the turnigy motors?

Yes, same motors, though I changed the props to 10x4.7. I will keep tweaking though.

Thanks again for your help

 

[Motopreserve]

Yes, same motors, though I changed the props to 10x4.7. I will keep tweaking though.

Thanks again for your help

No sweat. I can't recall what your budget was - but if you look to up the ante to sunnysky you may get a bit better thrust and efficiency. They are reasonable for the quality, and definitely a step up from the turnigy, in my experience.

 

[PeteDee]

Thanks Pete, No harm done. I have been trawling through some of the current and older threads, though with such little knowledge comes insecurity with some of the similarities around components. Parts in some of the lists just seem completely different to me. I'm sure with time and research my comfort levels will increase.

Thanks and see you around

Okay so you want a good, really good beginners list of parts, not the cheapest but a good balance of quality and price then here it is.

1. Frame, DJI450 or similar with PCB power distro built in. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...opter_Frame_450mm_Integrated_PCB_Version.html

2. Motors, there is a heap of choices but the SUnnySky X2212 980kv is an excellent choice for a 450 size quad. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...Octa-Wholesale-Promotion-Free/1554385059.html if you hunt a bit you can get these in four packs for a little cheaper. this will happily run on 4S.

3. Flight Control Unit (FCU), KK2.1.5 is about the best value out there for $30 is hard to beat, this is the newest version of this board, get the USBasp adapter at the same time. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ntrol_Board_With_6050MPU_And_Atmel_644PA.html http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...Programming_Device_for_ATMEL_proccessors.html If you want to grab a Naza then go for it but best to buy a V2 with GPS rather than the Lite unless you really cannot spend the bigger bux, in that case get a KK2.1.5 and save up for a V2.

4. Batteries, Zippy Compacts are a great pack to start with, grab a couple of 4S packs around 3000mH and 30C, these will be fine but you will have to change the connector to XT60. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21350__ZIPPY_Compact_2700mAh_4S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

5. Radio, spending a little more here will give you a huge long term payoff, just bite the bullet and get a Taranis X9D or better, to program up for a Naza equipped quad on one of these radios is a breeze. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...D_Digital_Telemetry_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html I have a DX18 and a 14SG and thinking of getting one of these for my long range flying with an EZUHF module.

6. To get started the GemFan props are the best, for the SS 2212's 9x4.7 is a perfect fit, once you are not breaking so many props grab some Graupner 9x5 E-Props.

7. FPV camera, http://www.runcam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2 this is the latest version of the 0420, great balance of price and performance.

8. Goggles, attitudes in the pack with vTx is a good starting point, I use Dominators and will get some HD Dominators as soon as they are available but for a good experience and reasonable cost the Attitudes are fine as are the SkyZones.

9. ESC's, Afro 30A are one of the best choices here but any 30A ESC's flashed with SimonK firmware will be a good choice. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ller_SimonK_Firmware_.html?strSearch=Afro 30A

The above list is not the cheapest but it will mean that you have a good experience and it will all perform well with no nasty surprises.

Cheers.

Pete

 

[Beaver2206]

Okay so you want a good, really good beginners list of parts, not the cheapest but a good balance of quality and price then here it is.

1. Frame, DJI450 or similar with PCB power distro built in. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...opter_Frame_450mm_Integrated_PCB_Version.html

2. Motors, there is a heap of choices but the SUnnySky X2212 980kv is an excellent choice for a 450 size quad. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...Octa-Wholesale-Promotion-Free/1554385059.html if you hunt a bit you can get these in four packs for a little cheaper. this will happily run on 4S.

3. Flight Control Unit (FCU), KK2.1.5 is about the best value out there for $30 is hard to beat, this is the newest version of this board, get the USBasp adapter at the same time. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ntrol_Board_With_6050MPU_And_Atmel_644PA.html http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...Programming_Device_for_ATMEL_proccessors.html If you want to grab a Naza then go for it but best to buy a V2 with GPS rather than the Lite unless you really cannot spend the bigger bux, in that case get a KK2.1.5 and save up for a V2.

4. Batteries, Zippy Compacts are a great pack to start with, grab a couple of 4S packs around 3000mH and 30C, these will be fine but you will have to change the connector to XT60. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21350__ZIPPY_Compact_2700mAh_4S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

5. Radio, spending a little more here will give you a huge long term payoff, just bite the bullet and get a Taranis X9D or better, to program up for a Naza equipped quad on one of these radios is a breeze. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...D_Digital_Telemetry_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html I have a DX18 and a 14SG and thinking of getting one of these for my long range flying with an EZUHF module.

6. To get started the GemFan props are the best, for the SS 2212's 9x4.7 is a perfect fit, once you are not breaking so many props grab some Graupner 9x5 E-Props.

7. FPV camera, http://www.runcam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2 this is the latest version of the 0420, great balance of price and performance.

8. Goggles, attitudes in the pack with vTx is a good starting point, I use Dominators and will get some HD Dominators as soon as they are available but for a good experience and reasonable cost the Attitudes are fine as are the SkyZones.

9. ESC's, Afro 30A are one of the best choices here but any 30A ESC's flashed with SimonK firmware will be a good choice. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ller_SimonK_Firmware_.html?strSearch=Afro 30A

The above list is not the cheapest but it will mean that you have a good experience and it will all perform well with no nasty surprises.

Cheers.

Pete

You sir, are a gent.

That's tomorrow's research sorted.

I am interested in the KK2.1.5 as an alternative and I'm going to check these Sunnysky motors out.

I will keep you all posted. Have a great weekend!

 

[Motopreserve]

You sir, are a gent.

That's tomorrow's research sorted.

I am interested in the KK2.1.5 as an alternative and I'm going to check these Sunnysky motors out.

I will keep you all posted. Have a great weekend!

thats a damn good list. Pete is correct, saving so that you can have a better machine is bound to pay dividends in the satisfaction department. If you are looking for sunnysky, there are a few US retailers. Buddyrc and multirotor superstore are a couple. Also, taranis seems to be sold out right now - but I'm sure they'll replenish. That link I gave you has some retailers. Plenty of DJI folks here in the states, and if HK USA warehouse has your FC and batteries, you might save a bit on shipping overall - and the wait will be less.

PS: Pete, you will not be disappointed with the Taranis. I have a 14Sg as well, and I will most likely sell it once I have all builds fully functioning on the FrSky gear. I just don't personally need 2 radios (famous last words!), and the taranis is doing very well indeed.