DJI 550 will not hover while running parallel

[EL_Nino619]

As the title says, it won't hoover running 2 3s 5000mAh 35c lipo's. I took it to my local drone shop where I bought the F550 and batt's and they where baffled, no answer??? When running parallel GPS slowly falls, while looking like it going to hold but does not. Atti mode also slowly descends but never has a chance to hold, it will completely land. When using these batteries alone everything is perfect. No clue what it could be, and the local shop had no idea either, they thought maybe the new E300 tuned propulsion system? Anyways here is my setup, tell me if you see anything that would be causing this or have ever heard of it. Thanks

DJI F550
Naza M-lite
E300 motor and props
DJI landing skids
Gopro Hero 3 on gopro mount
Small 2s lipo for separate LED
2 3s 5000mAh 35c batteries
Spektrum DX8
AR6255 with TM1000 telemetry

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Have you tried to launch in Manual. That will tell you what you are using to actually hover. If you cannot do that above 50% then you are overweight.

 

[EL_Nino619]

Hi, I have not tried taking off in manual mode. Seeing as my Hex is pretty much a bare frame, how could it be over wieght with 2 batt's? That kind of scares me thinking about putting a gimbel and FPV in the future. Luckily the owner of the shop was nice enough to take the batt back and I purchased a Pulse 6600 flat pack. I am going to go back to the shop on Monday and try to give it another shot. They also said it may need 10" props, or it may have something to do with the E300. Thanks for the reply and I will let them know what you said and give it a shot, I really hope 2 batts is not over weight though.

 

[Jareth_Atian]

Tiger MT2212 generates 270g of thrust per motor at 50% throttle with 9" props on a 3s battery. Now, that isn't the exact same motor speed/prop pitch as the DJI E300 set, but it might be a good number to start with.
Hum...DJI's web page lists a recommended load of 300g per axis instead of 270g for the e300, but doesn't specify if that is with a 3s or 4s battery. So...let's assume a recommended load of between 1620 (6 x 270) and 1800 (6 x 300) grams.


478 grams DJI F550 frame weight
300 grams 6x E300 2212 motors
180 grams 6x E300 ESC's (approximate; couldn't find actual values)
66 grams DJI Naza lite
25 grams DJI landing gear
182 grams GoPro Hero3 on Gopro mount (assuming the mount is the waterproof housing)
1140 grams 2x 3s5000mah batteries (assuming similar weight to turnigy nano-tech)
6 grams Spektrum AR6255 receive
<unknown> Assorted wiring
<unknown> 2s lipo for LED's
<unknown> LED's

So...You're total weight is: 2377 grams, plus whatever your 2s lipo and LED's weigh. That is significantly overweight. Note: Removing one of the 3s batteries lowers your weight to 1807 grams plus the weight of the 2s lipo and LED's. Still overweight, but not nearly as badly. Going to the GoPro Frame mount would save an additional 70 grams.

You *can* build a hex running on the e300 system that will carry a gimbal and fpv gear. But...you'll need to be careful about weight. Conserve where you can, remove unneccesary cosmetic components, etc.

 

[pixeltim]

Tiger MT2212 generates 270g of thrust per motor at 50% throttle with 9" props on a 3s battery. Now, that isn't the exact same motor speed/prop pitch as the DJI E300 set, but it might be a good number to start with.
Hum...DJI's web page lists a recommended load of 300g per axis instead of 270g for the e300, but doesn't specify if that is with a 3s or 4s battery. So...let's assume a recommended load of between 1620 (6 x 270) and 1800 (6 x 300) grams.

478 grams DJI F550 frame weight
300 grams 6x E300 2212 motors
180 grams 6x E300 ESC's (approximate; couldn't find actual values)
66 grams DJI Naza lite
25 grams DJI landing gear
182 grams GoPro Hero3 on Gopro mount (assuming the mount is the waterproof housing)
1140 grams 2x 3s5000mah batteries (assuming similar weight to turnigy nano-tech)
6 grams Spektrum AR6255 receive
<unknown> Assorted wiring
<unknown> 2s lipo for LED's
<unknown> LED's

So...You're total weight is: 2377 grams, plus whatever your 2s lipo and LED's weigh. That is significantly overweight. Note: Removing one of the 3s batteries lowers your weight to 1807 grams plus the weight of the 2s lipo and LED's. Still overweight, but not nearly as badly. Going to the GoPro Frame mount would save an additional 70 grams.

You *can* build a hex running on the e300 system that will carry a gimbal and fpv gear. But...you'll need to be careful about weight. Conserve where you can, remove unneccesary cosmetic components, etc.

I've been considering building the F550 so I could carry a better camera. From what I'm reading here, the payload of the F550 is no better than the Phantom. I get 20+ minute flights with my Vision. Am I wrong in hoping to get similar flights with a bigger camera on a F550?

 

[Tahoe Ed]

I seriously doubt that you can get 20 minutes on a loaded F550. I fly with a 2860g F550 with the E300 system. I am flying with 2x4S 4000 lipos. I get 10-12 minutes with a H3-2D gimbal and GoPro.

 

[pixeltim]

I seriously doubt that you can get 20 minutes on a loaded F550. I fly with a 2860g F550 with the E300 system. I am flying with 2x4S 4000 lipos. I get 10-12 minutes with a H3-2D gimbal and GoPro.

Is it a better platform for stability?

I like my Vision but I was considering either a Phantom 2 with H3-3D and GoPro or F550 with H3-3D and GoPro since I get better results with the GoPro. The Vision camera on DNG just takes way to long to save images to the card and free up for the next shot.

 

[EL_Nino619]

I seriously doubt that you can get 20 minutes on a loaded F550. I fly with a 2860g F550 with the E300 system. I am flying with 2x4S 4000 lipos. I get 10-12 minutes with a H3-2D gimbal and GoPro.

Well that's depressing, seeing I was told different when I was swayed to buy it.

I don't see how I am possibly overweight with my bare frame. Will I not be able to hoover etc when I put a gimble on? Or just have 5 minutes of flight time.

 

[Jareth_Atian]

You're right. You cannot possibly be overweight with your bare frame. Your bare frame weighs only 458 grams.
If you add on your DJI-Naza Lite, Spektrum Receiver, E300 propulsion system and DJI landing skids, you're still at only ~1055 grams. Given that the e300 propulsion system is recommended for 300 grams of load per axis, that leaves you with ~745 grams possible payload before you're overweight for that particular motor/prop combination.

It's what you add to your bare frame that can make a multirotor overweight.

A 3-Axis Zenmuse H3-3D Gimbal weighs 168 grams, the HERO3 weighs only 51 grams and a FatShark or ImmersionRC FPV transmitter weighs only ~14 grams. Add on a single 4500mAh battery at ~510 grams. 1798 grams. Not overweight at all!

If you increase the weight (even if the extra weight is a larger battery), it is likely that the flight time will be decreased (or at least, get significantly diminished returns for the additional power). If you increase the weight too much, it won't hover at all. Given that most gimbals available for the Hero3 are fairly lightweight, however, I think that you'd be able to hover just fine depending on what batteries you choose to load your F550 with. Just with reduced flight time, since you'd be running at more than 50% throttle (and thus, consuming more power) just to hover.

 

[EL_Nino619]

Okay, so when I get a gimble I will need upgraded props, motor and ESC etc? I know its a balancing act for sure, learning as I go. Should I address the shop that sold me the 550 with the claims of it being able to run a gimble and parallel 3s etc. This is a drone only shop, selling 10k plus rigs, I took their word. I don't want to be a newb and whine about weight and flight time, I need to experiment on my own and find the best pair. But what do you mean by accessories? I like flying at night (Usually what work permits) so LED's are kind of a must. The 2s lipo is really small, about a match book. I am kinda confused by all the pics I see of other 550's loaded to the gills with landing skids, lights, camera, FPV, etc etc, I'm I the only one complaining about not being able to hover? Or is it something more that I am missing. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Jareth_Atian]

If the shop told you that you could carry parallel 5000mAh 3S batteries and a gimbal while using the e300 propulsion system... then IMO, yes you should probably complain to the shop. The e300 system looks pretty pretty good (I haven't tried it yet), but it doesn't look like it's designed to lift that kind of load.

(My own f550 runs at 2528 grams when fully loaded. It's an F550 with AeroXcraft landing gear and brushless GoPro Hero3 gimbal, Fatshark FPV gear, an LED light kit from CooperUAV, A bluetooth module and BEC's to run the assorted gear off the main battery (A single 5000mAh 4S battery). I upgraded the motors from the original dji 2212 motors to T-Motor 2216's in order to get the thrust I needed.)

 

[TheUFGadget]

I would recalibrate the compass and do an advance calibration on the IMU. After that to hover in atti in a garage. If that works may be the GPS mounting data... if not you have have a bad barometric sensor...

 

[EL_Nino619]

Will give it a shot thank you. The shop did a IMU cal and flew it, but did not have a answer. Another hobby store said it may be over amped and the new 15A ESC are cutting down or not enough Amps to power a hover.

 

[EL_Nino619]

Dji 550 with everything except lipo comes in @ 1550g

3s 5000mAh 280g x2 = 560
Pulse 6600 715g (hovers just fine.)
Hyperion 4s 5000mAh 535g (hovers just fine)
LED 500mAh for LED's 25g

So total wight with 6600 is 2,290g
2x 2s 5000mAh 2,110g and will not hover, what gives?

 

[haha49]

make sure the props are on the right way. If it's backwards it will be pushing the craft into the ground. What settings in the naza are you using?

nm I noticed your switching from 3s to 4s. Did you set the voltage in the naza? If you have it set to 4s it will think the 3s is to low

I run my F550 like this

Stock DJI motors (red ones)
DJI 10.5 props (plastic)
Tarot 2d Gimbal
1 6000 4s Lipo
Gopro Hero 3
FPV Gear
Mini osd
blue tooth

I get 5-9 minutes of flight depending on wind and how I fly (fast is 5 minutes)

I have used 2 4s lipos and my flight time went up to 15 minutes but it was sluggish in the air and the motors were getting slightly warm. (I didn't like that I like stone cold)

I've done the 8 inch dji props as well it's less lift. I've also done 3s lipo

I ordered some 8000 4s lipos they seem to be the best choice for weight to capacity. Now 3s I could get it higher but running them togther can cause problems. You made sure both battreys were the same voltage right? If 1 is off you can have problems.

I run everything off the 4s flight lipo. The gimbal and fpv gear only draw 1 amp so it's not noticeable difference. I lose 1 minute by adding landing gear and 2 minutes for all the fpv and gimbal gear. So if I want max flight times I need to dump all the fpv gear. Extra battery's are extra weight so I went with running it all off the flight battery. The gimbal and fpv is powered off the balance lead. (it works fine 98 flights later)

 

[Jareth_Atian]

EL_Nino619 asked:

So total wight with 6600 is 2,290g
2x 2s 5000mAh 2,110g and will not hover, what gives?

Hum. Is the Pulse 6600 a 3S or a 4S battery? Different voltage = different amount of thrust.

Are you sure about the weight on the 3S 5000mAh batteries? I haven't seen any even close to that low weight. The lightest 5000mAh 3S battery that I've been able to find is 375g. Also, what C rating do your 3S batteries have?

(P.S. I'm assuming that the '2S' is a typo; you've said before that you are trying to run 2x 5000mAh 3S batteries, right?)

 

[ferdy55]

Very similar to my own setup
what kind of flight times are you getting?
Ferd

 

[haha49]

It's recomended that you use a 30 esc for the F550 and F450 that's the recomended esc... 15 is half that.

 

[EL_Nino619]

2s lipo is for LED's only, so yes typo. Pulse 6600 is a 4s. I wight them, the local shop sells them, they are called anti-gravity. Whether they are truly 5kmAh...??? C rating is 35c. Its just very odd that a 4s 6600 hovers fine, 2x 3s 6600 of less wight, or lets say the same won't.

The 15amp ESC is the new Dji E300 tuned propulsion system, its is recommended for the F550

 

[EL_Nino619]

All conservative with battery. Will be doing further testing when the weather gets better (Don't say that often in spring in Southern California LOL )

Pulse 3s 3300mAh about 9 min, this is a short flight and I had what seemed to be a start of a flyaway
View attachment 17827
View attachment 17827


Hyperion 4s 5000mAh 6min, but could have gone much longer. Around 12+ I would guess.
View attachment 17828
View attachment 17829


Pulse 4s 6600mAh 8min 2 separate flights and minutes between sitting idle.
View attachment 17825
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