Quadrotor project

[stunito0o0]

Hello guys,
after good information drilling

, i decided that i will be capable of building my first quadcopter.I'm sure i will need help at some point, so i'm starting a thread to ask you, the exp. guys, if i have any troubles. I hope you will help me

I want to build quadcopter with as long as possible fly time (at least 20 min or more).I love aerial pictures so i want it to have an fpv system.It's sure that i wont do any crazy 3D, as i never flew anything before and i dont want to wreck my copter

So what will i need:

Frame: i prefer the spider/reptile quadcopter frames like this one.
Controller(with GPS): i like this one and the GPS, they aren't too pricey and people say that they are good enough.
Radio: Probably the turnigy 9x or turnigy 9xr(i will love to know which is better and why)
The problem is the flight time i was trying different configurations ,but when i calculate them in ecalc.ch i never get more thet 5-6 min flight time and around 14-15 min of hovering. The best configuration i made is this:
HP4108-580kv from rctimer.com
RCTimer SK OPTO ESC 20A Brushless ESC
ZIPPY Compact 5000mAh 4S 25C

About the FPV i will buy it later when i fly a little with the quad, but i am thinking of something like:
Camera: I want to be as small as possible like this one
OSD: MAVLink OSD 1.0 from rctimer.com
TX: i will go with the 5.8 Ghz like this one because i wont fly more then 1/2 mile away and i wont go behind trees,houses etc.
RX: probably a lcd screen or goggles i havent decided yet.
Antennas: definitely circular polarised ,waiting for suggestions
and a 3s battery around 700-800mAh .
So guys as you see i am a newbie.I am looking foward and open for any suggestions,tips and etc.Especially for increasing the flight time.
Best regards,
Stanislav

 

[Motopreserve]

Hey stunit. Welcome to the forum.

Looks like you have been doing some research - but a couple things to keep in mind:

getting over 20 minutes flight time is tough. In fact, getting CLOSE to 20 minutes is tough. You might need to tamper your expectation just a little bit.

The he motors you linked to are very low Kv rating for a quad. Seems like you might be better with a 28 series in the 900-1250kv range - of course depending on your total weight (AUW).

The he other thing I noticed is that you mention loving aerial photography - but then jumped to FPV. I'm assuming you know that the photos you might capture from an FPV camera will not look too great. For that you'll want a möbius or gopro onboard. You probably know this already - but the post was confusing.

Make sure you use eCalc to determine e the flight time benefit/weight cost for a large battery.

Good luck!

 

[stunito0o0]

Hello Motopreserve , thank you for your time and suggestions.
About the aerial photography yes i know that with this camera i won't get far,but i want to start with something less expensive,because i don't want to spend too much money for my first build which i will most likely crash.I am planning of flying a couple of months with it just so i can get good at flying with a multirotor.
About the flight time thank you for your tips they make sense , but i just saw a thread in other forum where a guy claims that he fly with his quad for 23 minutes using the Sunnysky 2814-11kv 700kv motor ,12x5 props and 2x4s 5000mah batteries.

Im running 12x5 xoar propellers on my quad using SunnySky 2814 700kv motors,they barely get warm.

Quad weight is 2.1 kg,lots of power,she carries 2 x 4s 5000 mah batteries and flies for 23 mins

Thats with a brushless gimbal and gopro also

Is that possible and if it is
how about 2xbatteries they are the lightest 5A 4S in hobbyking.
+ the motors he uses + props(i need help choosing) +esc(i need help choosing)
My AUW i estimeted will be about 710 grams(for all electronics +cables+ frame) + 976 grams(2x5A 4S) + 4x120grams(4 motors)+ 4x30grams(4xESC) = 2286 grams
P.S.About the props i understand the carbon fiber is the strongest and about the prop pitch the more pitch more thrust but less stability so how about this prop.And about the ESC i know the simonK is better, i understand that the 400hz ESC are very good too.So this or this.
Thank you againg for the quick response.
Regards,
Stanislav

 

[Motopreserve]

As far as the camera goes - I was trying to point out the difference between FPV feed video and the good looking video capture you typically see on YouTube. The good looking stuff is not the FPV cameras, it's more of the "high quality" cameras like a Mobius (cheap and light) or GoPro (more expensive and heavy). So other than running FPV rig at some point, those little security cameras won't be much use for filming now. Maybe we are having a miscommunication?

You can definitely go with 2 batteries - you'll need 2 to get even close to 20 minutes flight time. Just remember that the extra battery will add weight. So it's a trade off. I only have the turnigy nano-tech batteries because of recommendations on this forum. So far so good, but a little heavier than the one you linked.

The sunnysky motors are supposed to be great. Again, I don't have them - but they will probably be my next purchase. I just have cheap ESCs too. I flashed them with simonk firmware myself (you can buy a cheap flashing tool at HK) - but they're under $10/each.

Do some more research and see what eCalc tells you. Remember, if eCalc has the specific components you're looking at (or if you can program in the data under custom) then you choose "without drive" at the top, and it calculates your AUW and payload capabilities. You're headed in the right direction...

 

[slow_jun]

Hi Stanislav,

im also trying to achieve the same thing, the major stopper is the mixed flight time and the AUW, also a newbie here so basing all my research from google and on here, ecalc gives me some promising data but the MFT is major headache.

based from ecalc, If you want a slower motor, you need to get a bigger prop, from the specs mentioned, the motor being a slow motor (low RPM). you may need t get a bigger prop, but your KV rating (motor) is not sufficient to create the lift capability. (please correct me gurus).

my calculation fo a quad with FPV system plus go pro and also a GPS system , the AUW will be roughly 2400-2800g. that is having a 2 3s 8400Mah lipo (1.2KG batt weight), but th MFT ( ecalc computed) will be only 8-11Mins, that is having a 1000KV turnigy motors. this is with a 11 x4.5 prop.

you may need toy up with the combination in Ecalc and check in Hobbyking the parts that may give you some idea on the specs that you might be needed on your requirement.

Hello guys,
after good information drilling

, i decided that i will be capable of building my first quadcopter.I'm sure i will need help at some point, so i'm starting a thread to ask you, the exp. guys, if i have any troubles. I hope you will help me

I want to build quadcopter with as long as possible fly time (at least 20 min or more).I love aerial pictures so i want it to have an fpv system.It's sure that i wont do any crazy 3D, as i never flew anything before and i dont want to wreck my copter

So what will i need:

Frame: i prefer the spider/reptile quadcopter frames like this one.
Controller(with GPS): i like this one and the GPS, they aren't too pricey and people say that they are good enough.
Radio: Probably the turnigy 9x or turnigy 9xr(i will love to know which is better and why)
The problem is the flight time i was trying different configurations ,but when i calculate them in ecalc.ch i never get more thet 5-6 min flight time and around 14-15 min of hovering. The best configuration i made is this:
HP4108-580kv from rctimer.com
RCTimer SK OPTO ESC 20A Brushless ESC
ZIPPY Compact 5000mAh 4S 25C

About the FPV i will buy it later when i fly a little with the quad, but i am thinking of something like:
Camera: I want to be as small as possible like this one
OSD: MAVLink OSD 1.0 from rctimer.com
TX: i will go with the 5.8 Ghz like this one because i wont fly more then 1/2 mile away and i wont go behind trees,houses etc.
RX: probably a lcd screen or goggles i havent decided yet.
Antennas: definitely circular polarised ,waiting for suggestions
and a 3s battery around 700-800mAh .
So guys as you see i am a newbie.I am looking foward and open for any suggestions,tips and etc.Especially for increasing the flight time.
Best regards,
Stanislav

 

[stunito0o0]

Hello again guys,

1st i want to thank you for your time.Motopreserve yes i might have missundestood my english is not so good,but from what i undestand from your post you mean that this camera is not for photography it is for fpv i know that i guess i will postpone the photography for couple of months so i can learn how to fly the quad first(if i missundestand again feel free to correct me ).
Slow_jun thank you for your info .After some more information drilling and experimenting i think that i finally know what my combination of motor,battery,props, and esc will be.I test it in different combinations and the 3 best ones are:
1st combination: prop 11x4.7 , 2xbattery 5A, 30A simonK ESC, SunnySky 2814-11 700KV motor
View attachment 16085
AUW in 1st combo: 759G(frame,electronics,fpv system,cables and other small stuff)+4x32g(4 ESCs)+4x120g(4 motors)+2x488(2 batteries) = 2343g
I don't like it very much because of the 59% of trottle i have to give so the quad can hover.
2nd combination: prop 12x4.5 , 2xbattery 5.8A, 30A simonK ESC, SunnySky 2814-11 700KV motor
View attachment 16086
AUW in 2nd combo: 759G(frame,electronics,fpv system,cables and other small stuff)+4x32g(4 ESCs)+4x120g(4 motors)+2x568(2 batteries) = 2503g
I don't like it very much because of the shorter flight time.
3rd combination: prop 12x3.8 , 2xbattery 5.8A, 30A simonK ESC, SunnySky 2814-11 700KV motor
View attachment 16087
AUW in 3rd combo: 759G(frame,electronics,fpv system,cables and other small stuff)+4x32g(4 ESCs)+4x120g(4 motors)+2x568(2 batteries) = 2503g
My favorite combination of all 3,because of the ballance between as less as possible trottle needed to hover and as much as possible flight time.
So what do you guys think can i change something to make it better, am i missing and/or mistaking something.Feel free to criticise me.
Cheers,
Stanislav
P.S.Excuse my poor english.

 

[Motopreserve]

That looks pretty good. I would maybe try to find a motor that can get you down to about 50% throttle, but this one you list will probably do just fine. Realize that it's not exact - and you may be able to save some weight here and there to bring the load down, making it easier to get the craft off the ground.

Motopreserve yes i might have missundestood my english is not so good,but from what i undestand from your post you mean that this camera is not for photography it is for fpv i know that i guess i will postpone the photography for couple of months so i can learn how to fly the quad first(if i missundestand again feel free to correct me ).

That's right - the FPV camera is not so good for video for posting etc. It's really for use in your goggle or screen to get the experience of flying on the craft. Very cool, but very different.

 

[stunito0o0]

I will probably go with this setup, if it hovers at too high trottle i will change the propellers to 12x4.5 i will loose 1 minute of flying time but the trottle will be at about 51% or 5% less. About the FPV what do you think about this setup:
1.Camera
2.OSD
3.TX
4.RX
5.Antenas
6.Battery
Is the antena good(i dont know what to look for,except for the polarization) also i see that there is the same antena with reverse polarity how do i know which one i need?
Sorry for the dumb qurstion but, i couldn't find an answer.

 

[Motopreserve]

I don't know a lot about FPV, but have been doing a lot of research. I know you want to go with the cloverleaf antenna, like the ones HERE: That's just one example - he makes several that are all cloverleaf, but slightly different designs. Not sure the differences. Where are you located? That makes a difference which frequency you choose.

Also, for a camera, check out THIS thread. Read Kloner's post. That company seems to be the go-to company for the FPV cameras. And they are cheaper. They have most of the cheap raw-style cameras in the cases as well.

 

[stunito0o0]

hmm nice technology that pixim.. if the quality is like in the pictures shown i think i just changed the camera of my quad hehe.Sure it will probably need some soldering , but i can handle that.About the frequency i already checked the 5.8Ghz is in the radio amateur spectrum here in Bulgaria .But i am not sure what that range means.. is it the length of the radio waves?

5650 MHz -5850 MHz range 5 centimeters

About the range of the FPV i wont go far maybe 1/2 mile with clean sight and 1/8-1/10 mile without clean sight(thru houses,trees etc),because i know that the 5.8Ghz is bad for going behing obstacles.By the way i just realize that this camera don't have a build in video recorder(so i can record the video without any OSD data) is there a small device which can record analog video to a micro SD card or something like that?Oh and how about i change the OSD with this one i hear that the minimOSD firmware is better.Looks like i have a lot of questions i will need a couple of weeks more researching.Again thank you for your answers Motopreserve you are very helpful to me.
EDIT:I just saw that the OSD from rc timer can be programed with the newest MinimOSD-Extra firmware with this.It is cheaper so i don't see a reason not to get the one from rc timer .

 

[Motopreserve]

Well, I'm new to this also, so I can't be THAT much help

5.8 is the frequency spectrum that the video transmits at. As long as you check the legal requirements in your area, you should be fine. It's definitely the wave length that is represented by the number.

I think ink most people record down on the ground with a split to a mini-DVR. But I could be wrong. The most common method I've seen is this FPV camera to your goggles/screen on the ground, and a möbius or gopro on the quad for recording better quality video.

Apparently 5.8 doesn't go through anything. So you have to be aware of that. People apparently get decent distance from the better antenna. I want to eventually be able to go around some trees, so I'm looking into 1.3. But that requires some messing with filters for to avoid interference with the 2.4 my TX runs at.

i don't know how much that OSD is - I will probably just get mine from Witespy where I got my multiwii board. He sells this stuff super cheap with the most recent firmware etc.

So much to research....

take ken some time to watch THESE videos if you haven't already. Lots of great FPV info.

 

[stunito0o0]

I am pretty sure that it will be legal about the frequency. About the 1.3ghz i wanted to be on that frequency, but then i saw in these videos(i watched them before starting the thread ) that your FPV frequency must be over your radio frequency unless you want to make filters and such.Then i decided to be ,on 2.3ghz but then my radio must be on 27Mhz or 49Mhz(the 72MHz are not allowed in Europe) which isn't an option too.The next step 2.4ghz- the radio must again be on 27 or 48Mhz,but now all the wifi routers in the area are a problem.And the only option for a newbie as me was the 5.8Ghz

 

[Motopreserve]

For 1.3 I have read that you need a $20-$30 filter to eliminate the interference with the radio's 2.4. For me that would be worth it since I need to be able to deal with obstacles. There is also 900 which seems good - until you realize that our cell phones here in the states operate on that frequency. Or is it wifi? Somehow it seems that any choice is hindered by something, either obstacles or interference

 

[slow_jun]

you can use a Go pro as your video as well as your FPV and do recording, the go pro as a video out (mirco usb or video jack) and hook it up with your FPV. if you want to save on some weight.

 

[stunito0o0]

slow_jun about the gopro they are too expensive and i read that there is a delay in the fpv when using a gopro as fpv camera. After some more browsing i think i will probably go with the boscam explorer hd 19 it is only 58 grams, the quality seems good enough and it has a build in onboard video recorder.The only problem is that i hate the fisheye effect so i am wondering what lenses should i get to reduse/remove this effect. Oh about the frequency of the fpv i will probably go with 5.8Ghz and a cloverleaf antenna ,because of this video and the monitor with the build in receiver,but i will change the transmitter with something like this and a good antenna.
P.S I haven't decided for sure that this is going to be my setup,i need to do some more research espetially about 1.2/1.3Ghz, but i like it for now.What do you guys think?
regards,
Stanislav

 

[slow_jun]

If you are doing fast shoot/flying I think that would be a bit of a issue but if for slow flying then it can b doable, its a bit pricey but if your doing aerial shoot and would want a HD quality shoot the GP would be a better option as compared to DSLR cam or recorder.

personally , don't know which to buy.,but I think I will use a separate cam for FPV.

 

[Motopreserve]

If you are looking to get good quality video AND FPV at the same time, I think it might be best to look into one of the $50 cameras from Security2000 and a Mobius. It would be slightly more $ than the option you listed - but seems like it might give you a better result in the end. And it's definitely much cheaper than a GoPro.

 

[stunito0o0]

If you are doing fast shoot/flying I think that would be a bit of a issue but if for slow flying then it can b doable, its a bit pricey but if your doing aerial shoot and would want a HD quality shoot the GP would be a better option as compared to DSLR cam or recorder.

personally , don't know which to buy.,but I think I will use a separate cam for FPV.

Hello again sorry for the delayed answer,
If by fast shoot you mean to fly fast and aggresive i can assure you that i won't use it for that.I am just a newbie i will use it just to get used to fly a multirotor with camera.But lets put the camera aside for a while i will decide what to be later.Now i think to switch to 1.3ghz video i watched a few tutorials and i see that it isn't very dificult to set it up.I am thinking of this tx/rx combo + this monitor + low pass filter + antenna (and maybe a ferrite ring if there is still interference)or something similar.I also wanted to ask if anyone is familiar with the arducopter mission planner? I saw one guy tracking his mutirotor with his android phone and the mission planner for android(i think it is called androcopter) so my question is:Is it possible while using telemetry kit to program in real time missions on the quadrotor from my android tablet/phone?
Thank you for your help.
Stanislav

 

[Motopreserve]

The telemetry comes from the Flight Controller. There are a couple that do it now. You can search for mission planner or "waypoints."

Looks like the kit you listed above will have everything you need. Not sure if it's possible to copy that kit from individual parts with higher quality components - but it looks like a good start. I do know that most people say you ndon't need something as strong as 800mw fore the video transmitter. Might be able to save some $ with a less powerful one - and still get all the power you need.

 

[stunito0o0]

The telemetry comes from the Flight Controller. There are a couple that do it now. You can search for mission planner or "waypoints."

Thank you for your answer, but i think that we are having a miscommunication.I know where telemetry comes from i was asking if i can connect a telemetry kit with a pc/tablet/phone and program a gps waypoints while the quadrotor is in flight. I already saw how i can connect telemetry and osd at the same time(you have to connect the telemetry to the telemetry port of the arduflyer and then connect in parallel the connectors of the osd without the TX since the osd will only be listening).But there is no point of doing it if i cant use the telemetry kit to program waypoints wirelessly while in flight.