Zenmuse Z15 5D MARK III

[Tuukkuli]

If DJI is not going to fix the loss of horizon issue either with a new firmware or somehow else, all owners of the Z15-5D should be allowed to return their gimbals and get a full refund.

It says on the DJI pages that the accuracy of the gimbal is 0.02 degrees. The roll axle accuracy is more like 30-40 degrees. If this is to remain so, it is not the gimbal that is advertised and we buyers thought we would get but something else. So money back or make the gimbal meet the specs.

Think if a car manufacturer advertised a car with six gears but delivered it with, say four. And the petrol consumption was much higher because of that. Same thing.

 

[Quinton]

Just a heads up the rumor is all new dji gimbals are going to be released at NAB in a month to accept light bridge. Looks liks no dice on having all axis's and light bridge on existing zens. So hoping for a firmware update is prolly not gonna happen thats why no dji support guys ever respond to my questions ive been asking here for a month. It was the main reason i first came on here a couple of weekw ago. If this is the case with no new firmwares its going to be major bummer for alot of people.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Thing is though that its the resellers that are going to take the brunt of this problem as they will all be returned, and sending stuff back and forward is not cheap.
I have a lightbridge on order, so there is no way I am keeping this one, if it wont work with it like the new ones will.
Ive had it up to here with DJI premature releases of products...hmmm maybe I should also wait on Lightbridge v2
Its time to make a stand.

 

[sk8brd]

it's just a rumor a this point but makes sense. they should be able to fix the tilt issue with firmware---i wouldn't count my pennies though that light bridge will work with existing gimbals and have full 3 axis ability.. if you think about it you need hdmi cable out to the air unit. how are you going to place the unit with a signal wire coming from hdmi port on the camera while still having the zen balance and not rip the cable out if the air unit is mounted on the frame or gimbal somewhere when it spins 3 axis? your not going to be able to mount on the zen, a filter throw's off the balance let alone a 70grams somewhere.- planned obsolescence. same thing happened on my zunmuse hero on my phantom a year ago. a upgrade board was released with built in gcu which was great cause it removed the weight of a separate one. the problem was the gimbal would fall asleep on startup or mid flight very easily. months later a firmware release fixed issue and gimbals wouldn't fall asleep mid flight but since i had the upgrade board with built in gcu the firmware was not upgradable. the board came with gcu firmware baked into the board so it was not upgradable. i bought a 450 for the zenmuse hero then used the old gcu i had for the phantom to upgrade the firmware so the gimbal would work as advertised making the phantom upgrade board useless in the end. i now fly the phantom bare and just tinker around the yard with it-still fun though. -quite a workaround -one step forward two steps back.

 

[sk8brd]

are your guy's issue like this----https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd3obMH8vm4 not my video but on youtube and public. is there anyone on here with a 5d gimbal that doesn't do this?

 

[Tuukkuli]

Yes mine is like that. Looks very familiar. Pitch and pan are OK, roll accuracy is 30-40 degrees instead of the advertised 0.02 :upset:
My vendor replied my mail and told me he had linked my video to DJI and is waiting for a reply. I am too. With interest.

 

[sk8brd]

Tuukkuli when you yaw the ship to pan do you loose horizon or hold it. i know when a 2nd operator does it you loose it..let me know what they tell you if an update is on the way or being worked on than all can be good. i keep asking around an get no response back- so don't know if that implies anything.

 

[Tuukkuli]

I have never flown without a camera op or in fpv mode, so I don't know will I loose horizon when yawing the copter.

 

[Droid]

Did this thread started praising Z15 and ended up bashing it?

 

[Tuukkuli]

Well yes and for a good reason. It took me about 20 seconds on the very first flight with this gimbal to notice that it has a serious horizon issue. Cant blame myself for being disappointed after spending 2600(!)€ on it.

With the same amount of cash I purchased a Canon EOS 5D Mark III that is a superb DSLR that will service me reliably for years to come without any problems whatsoever. And if I would end up having a problem, the guarantee will take care of it no questions asked.

But on the other hand, Canon has been around since 1930s and will surely be there in the future as well. Not so sure about DJI though. Considering the way they are treating their customers.

 

[sk8brd]

agreed Tuukkuli- 3000$ is a lot of money on something that doesn't work as advertised.

this is not the first product by dji that has not work as advertised. the worse thing about it is they know there's a problem yet offer no solution and claim the gimbal is working as advertised and keep selling them..lol

i would be very hesitant to be an early adopter of light bridge or any other new product. Some products i have owned by them like my naza's have worked as advertised-why should this be any different with something that cost 3X more

for a company that has the ability to innovate and make new products before anyone else they should be able to sort out a 30-40 degree loss of horizon before a product is released. the fact that they continue to roll out products without testing
them fully or known faulty speaks about their respect for customer's money. Were all doing the job of testing their products at a cost to us.

 

[Joepapa]

Guys, I can't help but chime in here in defense. As an owner of this gimbal as well as piloting pro rigs with dual red epic cameras for 3D stereoscopic 5k filming, it's easy to blame equipment. Many people were extremely satisfied with the Wookong but others suffered the flip of death. While some are experiencing horizon issues, others are not.

While I am not saying this is your issue, not letting the gimbal acclimate to the outside temp, flying in cold weather, unbalanced props, and other factors will cause the issue your experiencing without question. With that said, this gimbal handles cold temps significantly better than the previous generation of zenmuse, and I encourage you to consider the above before writing the gimbal off as defective. I find it to be far better than ANY other option regardless of price.

 

[sk8brd]

joepapa- i'm been actually waiting for you too chime in and glad you did. your video tests's are what made me interested in the 5d vs the gh3 z15.

i been asking for people to share their result's and talking to other's about this it's the main reason i came on site actually. i understand about climate acclimation i do they same when using my lenses in the cold and seen trent from copterkids put their zen in a freezer so that's all great and i dig it and glad your's is handling the cold as well. my question is do you see have the same horizon loss when panning as in the video i posted and other's on this thread have proclaimed. having second op mode working is a big deal for me as i would be working in the action sport field so i would need to fly at a fast clip to keep up with subjects and it's a lot less stressful with framing concerns with a 2nd op in control of the cam and need pan to hold as close to level as possible. the 30-40 degree horizon loss i been seeing is not gonna cut it for my application. if your's is not showing this that would make me happy.. i want the gimbal don't get me wrong but will hold off if this happened on every one. the footage you created was pretty great btw..nice work.

 

[Joepapa]

I absolutely feel that having a second operator for the camera is a fundamental requirement for dynamic, interesting, and unique shots. Besides that, it takes a tremendous amount of responsibility away from the pilot, and significantly lowers the risk associated with pilot error. No one in the professional arena is doing it as a sole operator.

I have flown the zen in temps below the rated minimum temp. The rubber isolators become less pliable, and certainly transfer more vibration to the gimbal, but the most Ive ever seen the horizon drift, is about 2 degrees. When we had to fly in these bitter cold conditions (10 degrees F) Im actually stunned it functioned at all. By allowing the 2nd operator to have roll control as well, he is able to control all aspects of the gimbal while panning and tilting simultaneously, and could easily maintain or control roll if needed. How a single operator could do that while flying forward or in an arc during a decent would be something. That was the only time we ever had roll enabled, and none of the footage I posted in the beginning of this thread had any stabilization added in post and no roll control was in use. The gimbal works, but if its losing horizon to the tune of what some are reporting, I can't help but assume there is an outside factor influencing it. As Ive said, I have built and tuned gimbals using every iteration of the Alexmos board from Viacopter, ArmBGC, and SimpleBGC, as well as the high voltage boards, and soon to receive the new 32 bit version. Ive flown the Intuitive Aerial Black Armored Drone, used a Movi, and had my hands on several entry level Martinez boards, and the Zen is pretty much the benchmark that all others are judged against. The only limitation to the Zen is that the camera/lens combination is fixed. But thats not really a limitation, its actually one of the reasons it works so well. Combined with the encoders and serial connection from flight controller, it really is significantly more advanced than anything else right now.

 

[sk8brd]

thanks for responding joepapa. The reason i wanted the zen is everything you mentioned i just wasn't sure what the deal was cause with all these reports of loss on the roll axis. i would personally rather disable roll for 2nd op but that could be a solution it's just another thing i would need to be careful with though and would rather just have the 2nd op on tilt or pan being that unless you have some rc experience it may be a little hard for people to be clean in their movements. i'm glad that yours is working as advertised gives me some faith. i think i may hold out a couple of weeks more and see what happens at NAB then make a final decision. thanks though!

 

[Quinton]

I absolutely feel that having a second operator for the camera is a fundamental requirement for dynamic, interesting, and unique shots. Besides that, it takes a tremendous amount of responsibility away from the pilot, and significantly lowers the risk associated with pilot error. No one in the professional arena is doing it as a sole operator.

I have flown the zen in temps below the rated minimum temp. The rubber isolators become less pliable, and certainly transfer more vibration to the gimbal, but the most Ive ever seen the horizon drift, is about 2 degrees. When we had to fly in these bitter cold conditions (10 degrees F) Im actually stunned it functioned at all. By allowing the 2nd operator to have roll control as well, he is able to control all aspects of the gimbal while panning and tilting simultaneously, and could easily maintain or control roll if needed. How a single operator could do that while flying forward or in an arc during a decent would be something. That was the only time we ever had roll enabled, and none of the footage I posted in the beginning of this thread had any stabilization added in post and no roll control was in use. The gimbal works, but if its losing horizon to the tune of what some are reporting, I can't help but assume there is an outside factor influencing it. As Ive said, I have built and tuned gimbals using every iteration of the Alexmos board from Viacopter, ArmBGC, and SimpleBGC, as well as the high voltage boards, and soon to receive the new 32 bit version. Ive flown the Intuitive Aerial Black Armored Drone, used a Movi, and had my hands on several entry level Martinez boards, and the Zen is pretty much the benchmark that all others are judged against. The only limitation to the Zen is that the camera/lens combination is fixed. But thats not really a limitation, its actually one of the reasons it works so well. Combined with the encoders and serial connection from flight controller, it really is significantly more advanced than anything else right now.

I have asked you this before but never got a reply.
Are you saying that your reset switch is working on tilt and roll axis and that you can tilt down and forward with a single switch, as "every" single one I have heard of is unable to do this, and DJI emails have confirmed that there is this problem?

Also on a side note they have always said that the Zenmuse can only be used with a 24mm lens, however if you goto the following page at the bottom you will see a 16-35mm L series lens..whats that all about?
http://www.dji.com/product/zenmuse-z15-5d

 

[sk8brd]

quinton and tuukkuli better check you props!!

 

[Tuukkuli]

Guys, I can't help but chime in here in defense. As an owner of this gimbal as well as piloting pro rigs with dual red epic cameras for 3D stereoscopic 5k filming, it's easy to blame equipment. Many people were extremely satisfied with the Wookong but others suffered the flip of death. While some are experiencing horizon issues, others are not.

While I am not saying this is your issue, not letting the gimbal acclimate to the outside temp, flying in cold weather, unbalanced props, and other factors will cause the issue your experiencing without question. With that said, this gimbal handles cold temps significantly better than the previous generation of zenmuse, and I encourage you to consider the above before writing the gimbal off as defective. I find it to be far better than ANY other option regardless of price.

Well I have a Wookong-M and I have been satisfied with it. It has been a trustworthy device and I would not hesitate to recommend it based on my experiences.

But this thread is about Z15-5D, not Wookong. Just to clarify my background a bit: I have been flying multicopters professionally for about four years. I have been through AV 130 and AV 200 gimbals, Skyline RSGS, Cinestar 3-Axis and Radians, two Alexmos gimbals and nowadays Movi M10 and the Z15-5D. I have my own Red Epic that I fly with M10 and the Mark III naturally too. So my background is pretty solid. I am not a rookie. I know quite a bit about aerial imaging with multicopters.

I wish the solution was as easy as to balance propellers. But it is not. Balancing the propellers is one of the most basic requirements. We always carefully balance all propellers before installing them to any copter. The weather on all the flights so far has been around +5 degrees centigrade. According to tech specs operating temperature is from -10 to +50C. The copter and gimbal has had ample time to acclimatize before flying. And I was flying for hours on last Saturday and still the problem persisted.

Believe me, I would so much like this thing to work and say good things about it. But I can't. And even if we overlook the horizon drift issue, there are still numerous features on the tech specs that are just simply not working. Like rec/stills on/off, and the reset function.

A bit like if Canon 5D III came with iso range up to 320 ASA even though the specs say it can go up to 25600 and when asked Canon about it, they would remain silent.

 

[Quinton]

And even if we overlook the horizon drift issue, there are still numerous features on the tech specs that are just simply not working. Like rec/stills on/off, and the reset function.

Silence is Golden

What is "Like rec/stills on/off" I am not having any problems start/stopping video or stills.

 

[Tuukkuli]

I didn't get mine to start/stop video or stills, but maybe it´s just me then. Need to re-check it.

As a last resort I ordered the V2 IMU to my Wookong. Also wrote another email to DJI Europe today. Let´s see if they answer this time.

 

[Quinton]

I didn't get mine to start/stop video or stills, but maybe it´s just me then. Need to re-check it.

As a last resort I ordered the V2 IMU to my Wookong. Also wrote another email to DJI Europe today. Let´s see if they answer this time.

Did you set your camera to 2 secs remote control, (not that its required if using another servo cable) also are you using S-bus?