Lippo Battery Advice

[Ali in Austria]

I use many re charge batteries in cameras, sat navs, power tools etc and they benefit from a breaking in cycle of fully charging, fully draining repeated a couple of times to condition them. It is then recommended to keep them in a fully charged state and certainly not leave them drained for lengthy periods.


This is my first use of Lippo Batteries. Does the same apply?


I have also read about the fire risk with Lippo's. Is it best to charge them on something fire resistant, keeping an eye on them of course. What about storage. Are they prone to just catching fire when not in use or connected? Is it advisable to store them in an air tight and fire proof container?


All advice welcome

 

[ChrisViperM]

If you do a Google search on "Lipo break-in" you get a million answers...like who was first: the chicken or the egg ???
Fact is: Lipo's got a limited life-time and therefore can only be charged a certain amoount of times (between 200x and 300x)....depending on the Lipo quality. By cycling you might get a few seconds more flight-time, but you are cutting down on your charging "counter". If it puts your mind to rest, cycle them before the first use and treat them "resectfully" afterwards, which means: Store them in a cool, dry place....if you store them, make shure they are charged not more than ~60% - 70%, don't charge them more than 1C (a 4500 mAh Lipo should be charged with no more than 4,5 Amps)....
Make it a rule to check the connectors of EVERY new LiPo pack...many times they are not soldered correctly and might come off during flight....gravity always wins, warm them up before flying in the cold.....if you stick to that, they will last you very long.

As for plugs/connectors, I only use these up to 4S:
http://www.ebay.at/itm/10-Stuck-5-P...809500651?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item231cf25beb

and from 5S up these:
http://www.ebay.at/itm/1-Set-8-0mm-...956645971?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item2325b79e53


In any case you need a good charger...don't go for cheap.
I use this charger / power supply combo:
http://www.world-of-heli.de/elektronik/ladegeraete/netzteil-efuel-1200.html
http://www.world-of-heli.de/elektronik/ladegeraete/robbe/power-peak-twin-eq-bid-1000w.html

The big advantage of this charger is the "BID-chip": http://www.world-of-heli.de/elektronik/ladegeraete/robbe/bid-chip.html ....just 11 mm x 15 mm, and it stores all your charging settings
Since I have always a bunch of Lipo's with me, its hard to keep emty and full ones apart...here is the solution: http://www.world-of-heli.de/akkus-lipos/lipo-zubehoer/akku-ladeanzeige-4-stueck.html



The best way to prevent fire while charging LiPo's is this:
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1726&products_id=9700457
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1726&products_id=9700456

If you are concerned about fire during transport or storage, you can get this:
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1726&products_id=89843
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1726&products_id=91984

NEVER LET THEM CHARGE UNATTENDED.....and have a bucket full of sand next to your charging station....comes in handy when you see the "holy smoke" going up....but I have to say that after 15 yrs. of RC experience and 100s of LiPo's, I have never had any problems with LiPo's catching fire.....

In general, Lipo's don't start to burn just for fun....normally it's either because they get hit or punctured, they have a short (loose connectors), or they get stored in a much too hot enviroment....Lipos are on display in every hobby shop, so if the chances are that high to catch fire, hoppy-stores would toss them away in a fire-proof safe.

Here is some additional LiPo reading: (much more on the net...)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
http://www.chargedrc.com.au/Battery-Stuff/read-before-you-charge-your-lipo.html

Hope this helps for the beginning...


Chris

 

[mbsteed]

and from 5S up these:
http://www.ebay.at/itm/1-Set-8-0mm-...956645971?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item2325b79e53


Chris

Don't use this style of connector if you are doing parallel or series connections you run the risk of plugging the batteries together rather than plugging those into the power harness - this is extremely dangerous - my hands have recovered but I was fortunate. If you are concerned go to the XT90.

 

[ChrisViperM]

Don't use this style if you are doing parallel or series connections you run the risk of plugging the batteries together rather than plugging those into the power harness - this is extremely dangerous - my hands have recovered but I was fortunate.

The same goes for a lot of other connectors.....that's why you should always concentrate on what you are doing.


Chris

 

[helloman1976]

Don't use this style of connector if you are doing parallel or series connections you run the risk of plugging the batteries together rather than plugging those into the power harness - this is extremely dangerous - my hands have recovered but I was fortunate. If you are concerned go to the XT90.

I agree and personally I would NEVER use those connectors and I 100% agree with the XT90's. I used XT60's on my 4S lipos and I wish I had used XT90's now. The wire that comes with Lipo batteries is oftern 8 gauge wire or bigger so it makes it easier to solder as well. Don't cycle your Lipos, they don't need it that is for Lead Acid batteries and is for charge capacity and has to do with the build up on the plates. Lipos and Lead acid do not work the same and neither do Nicads. Hope that helps.

 

[Ali in Austria]

Thanks for the advice Chris.

I am looking at one of these http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html

I have the charger that came with The Phantom so that would make 2 chargers, plus this one appears to let me charge to a storage level.

It is most unlikely I will progress to anything bigger for the foreseeable future as I have too many other expensive hobbies so I would think this would suit me.

Thanks for the other advice guys.

 

[helloman1976]

Thanks for the advice Chris.

I am looking at one of these http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html

I have the charger that came with The Phantom so that would make 2 chargers, plus this one appears to let me charge to a storage level.

It is most unlikely I will progress to anything bigger for the foreseeable future as I have too many other expensive hobbies so I would think this would suit me.

Thanks for the other advice guys.

Wow, that's really expensive for only 10A charging. I use this one and it's a 20A charger that does all that and more for almost half that. It's been working fine through many, many charges and I'm going to get a second one with a power supply so I'll have 2 of them. I can charge 4 4S x 4,000mah battery packs in balance mode in 56 minutes.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=17422

 

[Ali in Austria]

Stick a power supply on the price and it makes a difference though.

 

[helloman1976]

Stick a power supply on the price and it makes a difference though.

Gotcha, didn't see the build in power supply. I prefer to NOT have a built in power supply myself but that's just me. I can always replace it whenever I want or the charger but if one fails and it's built in then you're done and you need a new charger and a new power supply or another one that has one built it. Just my 2 cents...

 

[mbsteed]

Interesting background on charging and discharging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZtvuzBwDOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVhivPI8mSM

 

[helloman1976]

Interesting background on charging and discharging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZtvuzBwDOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVhivPI8mSM

The key to lipo batteries is understanding that they are simply 3.3V cells in parallel so when you "charge" them they should be balanced. If you charge multiple packs at once using a balance board then always use BALANCE to charge them. If you're doing a single pack at a time you can get away with FAST CHARGING them but I still would recommend balancing them but that's just me. I've had lipos for almost 7 years now and I still use many of the same ones, the only disadvantage is they are all 1C charge rate but I could care less. I've been using the same 3S 2,200mah packs for almost a decade and they still work great. For long term storage you should charge in STORAGE mode and never cycle your Lipo battery unless you drag them down SUPER low. I had a 3S pack I dragged down to 7.8V one time. My charger would not charge it because the voltage was too low. I put it outside overnight in the cold and in the morning it was over 9V and I was able to charge it and I've used it ever since. Lipo batteries are great, just don't overcharge them or they'll puff and explode with molten lithium in a 3 foot flame. If you ever puff a pack, toss it out.

 

[ChrisViperM]

Thanks for the advice Chris.

I am looking at one of these http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html

I have the charger that came with The Phantom so that would make 2 chargers, plus this one appears to let me charge to a storage level.

It is most unlikely I will progress to anything bigger for the foreseeable future as I have too many other expensive hobbies so I would think this would suit me.

Thanks for the other advice guys.

Thunderpower is a good company.....for what you are after, this charger will suit your needs...


Here some reading:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1377623

http://www.rclipos.com/CoDocs/TP610C_Manual.pdf




Just hope that spring will come soon....sick and tired of this weather here.....


Chris

 

[Ali in Austria]

Thanks for the info guys.

Thanks especially to Chris for taking the trouble to send me various links. I know the information is already on the various forums and you guys probably get fed up with Newbies asking the obvious but it really is a headache trawling through all the information available especially when some threads run in to hundreds of pages. Having now been pointed in the right direction I think the iCharger 206B might be more suitable, especially with the potential to Parallel Charge unless I am missing something. :tennis:

 

[ChrisViperM]

Just be aware that with the iCharger 206B (although a great product) you can only chare one LiPo at the time, and you need a power supply....http://www.zj-hobbyshop.de/download/iC206B_de.pdf

If that's ok with you, here you can get some good combos: http://www.zj-hobbyshop.de/kombisets-c-9.html

The e-fuel power supplies are great, I got three of them with various power...
some people modify power supplies from computer servers....very cheap, but needs some knowledge.

If you want to charge two Lipos at the same time and don't want to spend an arm and a leg, have a look at this:

http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1728&products_id=9704037
http://shop.lindinger.at/pdf/94343.pdf

and as a power supply: http://www.zj-hobbyshop.de/skyrc-efuel-netzteil-300w-p-130.html?cPath=5

If you are not going crazy with LiPos (6S...10.000 mAh....) this combo should be great for you


...and don't worry about being a newbie....we've all been there at some stage :tennis:


Chris

 

[Ali in Austria]

Thanks Chris.

I know the iCharger 206B only comes out of the box with the ability to charge one battery at a time. However, I have seen a couple of Videos and many of the suppliers have the leads required in stock to charge up to 6 batteries in Parallel at a time either using Octopus style leads or a Parallel Charging board or have I got that wrong. I have 2200/ 3S Lipos.

 

[ChrisViperM]

Thanks Chris.

I know the iCharger 206B only comes out of the box with the ability to charge one battery at a time. However, I have seen a couple of Videos and many of the suppliers have the leads required in stock to charge up to 6 batteries in Parallel at a time either using Octopus style leads or a Parallel Charging board or have I got that wrong. I have 2200/ 3S Lipos.

Here you are right, but with limitations....

Parallel charging works ONLY with identical LiPo's.....lots of people have screwed up their batteries by doing so (others had sucess)

Here is a great tutorial about parallel charging:

However, if you carry on with your hobby and get different LiPo's over the time (believe me, you will....) you are stuck with a single output charger...


I have a simple rule for my charging (and never had a problem)...only 1 LiPo at the time (per charging port), and only charging with 1C


It's your choice....


Chris

 

[Ali in Austria]

I am confused now. I understood that as long as you were charging identical type such as 3S you could parallel charge and videos I have seen show the iCharge 206B being used to charge 6 x 3S at a time warning they should be at a similar state of charge. The video above shows it being done and even an explanation that certain packs come parallel packed.

In all honesty and certainly for the foreseeable future I won't be moving on. My batteries are all 2200ma 3S. Is the iCharge unsuitable? As I understand it the charging capacity for 6 would be 6 x 2.2 = 13.2 Amps.

 

[ChrisViperM]

With the iCharge you can squeeze out 20 Amps (when using a 18 V power supply)....should be more than enough for you....what I never understood with this parallel charging so far is, that if your charger has 6 balancer contacts (thats why it is rated: 1S-6S), and you charge 6x3S (where you would need 18 balancer contacts), how that is done with these distribution boards....but 2x 3S at the same time should not be a problem......


Chris

 

[Ali in Austria]

As I understand it the charger just treats it as a larger capacity pack when connected in parallel for example 6 x 3S 2200mah. The charger treats it as 1 x 3S 13200mah pack. It is not uncommon for larger capacity packs supplied to consist of smaller capacity wrapped together and wired in parallel apparently.

 

[ChrisViperM]

The problem is: Each Lipo pack consists of single cells with 3.7 V each....and each +/- cell got a balancer wire.....

View attachment 10544

balancing the cells in a LiPo pack is absolutely necessary to bring ALL cells to a given charge level equally.
Most LiPo's you will come across are seriell connected LiPos...eg 2S, 3S, 4S and so on....you will hardly find 3S2P (or similar) LiPos.....



So to my logic: Each cell got a balancer wire and a specific charger is rated for 6S (meaning max. 6 sensors for the LiPo's balancer wires) means I can either hook up a 6S pack or 2x 3S or 3x 2S......otherwise I run out of balancer ports....

I found a thread where a guy explains his parallel charging system, but the way he explains how the different cells balance each other is more than strange.....I personally will definitely stay away from this:

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=14697


Chris