Phobotic Centerpiece Brushless Gimbal Controller

[Cameraj]

Cameras are getting smaller and with more performance every day, we don't need to fly a red, with the a7s and others on the way ,the birds will get smaller and safer, medium size gimbals are the way, New Dp's are now getting on board with the smaller cameras,

 

[SamurAchzar]

I agree about the need for a smaller gimbal. This is why we specced the F1 the way we did in the first place - my requirement was that it would fit, at most, a GH4 and be as compact and light as possible. The reason we didn't bring it forward had nothing to do with the market - it was a decision based on production costs and the cooperation around making it. We did not feel comfortable bringing it to the market under these circumstances.
Obviously a Phobotic gimbal is still something many people want, and we're doing great efforts to make one.

 

[Kilby]

Vibration when tilting has nothing to do with being "designed wrong". Any gimbal design has some compromises according to their specific use case. Standard pitch-roll-yaw gimbals are compromised in that when pitching down, the lens mass becomes perpendicular - rather than axial - to the roll motor, and that causes gains to be incorrect for this situation. Yaw can be affected too, but less so (because the weight of the camera is a smaller part of the overall yaw axis mass - the other being the pitch and roll assemblies).
There are ways to go around it with software and we're doing that, but the source of the problem is inherent (and in fact has nothing to do with the pitch axis which people think is the problem source, incorrectly).

I couldn't agree more, and you made one key point for me. This is an inherent problem. When you are designing a product to work in a certain operating environment, one of the VERY first steps is to evaluate all the inherent problems within that environment and design your offering around them. It's fantastic that you are aware of what is causing the issue, but when I hear this in depth description I think one of two things. Either... 1, this problem was not discovered until late in the product design cycle which would indicate a lack of sufficient R&D to identify the technical risks and hurdles in the gimbal environment or 2, It was identified early on and the design itself just just fell short. No matter how it really went down, there is still a product that is released with very high expectations set and doesn't seem to be able to live up to them. Basically, you have designed a high end gimbal controller that is not meant for a GoPro class of camera, yet it only works properly with a square shaped camera (according to your description above). Go figure.

 

[snurre]

Well Roee, sorry to hear about the termination of the F1 project. But I am happy about the good news regarding it´s previously secret big brother (F2?).
With reference to the unexpected abortion of the F1 story, is this "F2" a firm GO on completion and release? And when would you anticipate it to be available?

I, and probably many others, has been holding gimbal investment to get the F1 and now when you sort of left us floating here in the air a realistic estimate would help a lot with respect to the replanning now made neccesary. So please do not just answer "no estimate provided".

Tom

 

[econfly]

Forecasts are useless. The F1 story proves that. In the RC world we have tons of promises that don't deliver. All you can do is look at what is available and make the best decision you can. Waiting on a manufacturer to fulfill a promise is a losing strategy.

 

[SamurAchzar]

It's an open dialogue rather than any kind of promise. Promise is after you pay money and the manufacturer has to deliver a product; until then, plans constantly change (and its not limited to the RC world by any means).

 

[SamurAchzar]

Tom, obviously the change regarding the F1 has been disappointing for us as well, but we stand behind the decision to terminate it.

The F1 was further down the development process, so the new unit (not named with an F) will take more time than the F1 would have.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I couldn't agree more, and you made one key point for me. This is an inherent problem. When you are designing a product to work in a certain operating environment, one of the VERY first steps is to evaluate all the inherent problems within that environment and design your offering around them. It's fantastic that you are aware of what is causing the issue, but when I hear this in depth description I think one of two things. Either... 1, this problem was not discovered until late in the product design cycle which would indicate a lack of sufficient R&D to identify the technical risks and hurdles in the gimbal environment or 2, It was identified early on and the design itself just just fell short. No matter how it really went down, there is still a product that is released with very high expectations set and doesn't seem to be able to live up to them. Basically, you have designed a high end gimbal controller that is not meant for a GoPro class of camera, yet it only works properly with a square shaped camera (according to your description above). Go figure.

I think that the correct way to look at it is that we've created a product that wipes the floor with the competition (seen the 65mm video in the other forum yet?), and after releasing it we've found an issue that appears on a minority of the systems. We have suggested a simple interim fix, while we scientifically devise a more widespread solution.
While that has been in progress, we have fully supported our users and incorporated their feedback into the new firmware - which has excellent reviews so far.
Apart of that, we have continuously enhanced our unique data acquisition systems (which are far more advances than in any other RC product to date) to extract more information out of running systems which helps us to better diagnose and resolve such issues in the future.

 

[econfly]

It's an open dialogue rather than any kind of promise. Promise is after you pay money and the manufacturer has to deliver a product; until then, plans constantly change (and its not limited to the RC world by any means).

OK, then making decisions based on "open dialogue" is a losing proposition. My point, which is very well supported by the F1 story, is that nobody should trust announcements, claims, open dialogue, or whatever else we choose to call it. All that matters is what we can get here and now and how that product functions here and now. Future firmware, expected updates, etc., are routinely tossed out there by manufacturers (and I do think the RC world is worse than other areas) and are just as routinely not delivered, delivered late, or just ignored (for example, the F1 thread on another forum was simply locked without explanation, and following statements leading people to believe the product was just about ready to go). Nothing personal here, but when statements about future products are not fulfilled then trust is eroded. That can't be swept aside without some culpability remaining.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Manufacturers can do an "Apple" an not disclose anything until it's on store shelves, but:
1. I suspect that people who bother reading - let alone participating - in these threads appreciate some ongoing updates
2. In many cases, you want to get the word out just to assess the interest (now even Apple is guilty of that with their watch, "released" many months before actually available)
3. User feedback at the early stages helps shaping the product

You'd face the same dilemmas as a manufacturer, I assure you; this is not about anyone's integrity.

As long as you don't charge money for a project that doesn't exist (crowdfunding etc aside), it's a fair game.
Whether a customer should plan their decisions around that is their personal matter. If you have jobs lined up on spring time, then you'd be wise to get something now.

 

[econfly]

Good response. I agree.

 

[snurre]

Ok, I understand and I do appreciate this sincerity.
Consequently, a reasonable conclusion is that this unnamed bigger gimbal is, for now, just as much hot air as the F1.

With regards to interest assessment, I find the bigger one very interesting. Please keep us posted.

 

[jfro]

IMO, the controller & software is the sweet spot and gimbals are somewhat, a dime a dozen. Not saying some aren't better than others, but they can be built with a little common sense and a few tools.

I personally hope the CP and firmware just keeps getting developed and improved. There is already a crowded marketplace with a competent group of gimbals that are ready to fly and generally they are on the higher end of the price range.

I have been one of the lucky ones who has not run into any major issues with the CP. It has worked. Been a hiccup here and there and I have been pretty vocal about begging for improvements on the horizon. That being said, on a assembled gimbal I purchased and on my DIY, both using GH3, GH4, and a short test with my 5d MK II, it has just worked. Very seldom do I get unusable footage or surprises.

I'm don't fly fast nor I do it under pressure of customers eyes, but in terms of getting the footage I expect and having the gimbal work, this is as good as I need....

Features, reliability, and tightening up the horizon are, IMO, the only thing you need to work on. Be the brains, let others build the bodies, whether it be small, medium, or large in size. Focus on what you do good.

 

[Mactadpole]

I can't help but point out that the F1 Gimbal manufacturer still has it on his website boasting the breakthrough Phobotics electronics.
http://hdairstudio.com/the-f1-gimbal/

 

[jakuban]

As Roee said, we couldn't find a way to bring F1 to the market. Both me and Roee regred that. But as someone here said, you never know what will the future bring and maybe one day F1 will see the market somehow.
We agreed with Roee that we will not use F1 name for any other product from our companies, it is reserved for F1 as project of Phobotic and HD Air Studio.
Information on my website regarding F1 are not actual, and will be changed. What will happen with F1, we will see. I have invested a lot in this product...

Currently I am going to release new gimbal - InfinityMR and this will happen within 4weeks. Season has started, I know that... It can be seen on my RCG thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1858227&page=84#post31189843

PS. Roee, sory for advertasing but i don't want any confiusion here.

 

[ptaylor999]

Anyone know when the new CP's (non HV) will be back in stock? I'm needing one.

 

[Ti@goo]

They have it on stock!

 

[violetwolf]

I always have them in stock as well at my shop: www.UavMediaPros.com

Famous Hobby gimbals coming in the next few days as well. A pro combination with the Cp

 

[JustinEdgington]

Hey Guy's
Anyone in the U.K. with CP or CPHV, need some assistance with tuning a FH gimbal. Been struggling with this for months unsuccessfully and there's just no useful info available that i can find on the web to help.

Fingers crossed

 

[Ti@goo]

Sorry but whats is an FH gimbal?