Mikrokopter One Motor Won't Spin

[multirotorxy8]

Hi Guys,

I have an XY-8 setup, all motors arm when the battery is plugged in, however one does not spin. None of them throttle up, as I believe the Flight Control recognizes that one isn't spinning and doesn't throttle up because of it. When I first hooked it all up, all the motors spun up, though the one was sporadic, spinning, stopping, spinning.

I had a 6S battery connected briefly before hooking up the 4S's. I didn't spin up the motors, just had it plugged in (still learning, yes). From everything I've read, it doesn't seem like this should have burnt anything up, and from the motor arming upon powering up, it doesn't appear that the motor itself is actually burnt out.

Any thoughts or suggestion? Where to start if something would be potentially in need of replacement?

I am still waiting on an mkusb (I'm in Dubai) so I have no way of plugging it in right now, I know this makes things harder/impossible to troubleshoot...

Thanks!

 

[Bartman]

eric,

welcome to the site. this is a better place to fix this than via email.

have you been to the MK wiki and read through all the stuff new owners usually go through?

when you get the MKUSB you'll be able to connect the heli to the computer and run individual motors using the motortest feature. if the BL and motor are ok then they'll turn normally, remove the props before hooking it up to the computer.

bart

 

[multirotorxy8]

Thanks Bart,

Do you have a mkusb to send? Just want to know either way so I know if I need to track one down. I have read a lot on the MK wiki, still working my way through it all. I think I will have a better starting point once I can run the individual motors through the computer.

 

[Bartman]

josh,

the mkusb should have been in the box. i've looked and it isn't here. the fastest place to get one from in Dubai is Kopterworx in Turkey. you'll need the ribbon cable that comes with it.

 

[uahio777]

I feel that you are involved in huge problem about the motor spin is out of order if you change the motor then i hope motor is spin in his position i also know that you change the problem but if not issue in motor then must problem is in spin.

 

[Shaun Stanton]

I have a couple of questions

1. Is this a ready to fly bird?
2. Is your setup the complete MK system with NAVI board and GPS?

To comment on a few things; First the MK is not able to handle 6S batteries without modifying them, even then, this requires you to run a different brand of ECS's. The MK power distribution board is only rated for 5S batteries. Even to run a 5S you have to swap out the RECOM VR on the flight controller. Second you need an MKUSB, I do not know how you got this far without it. It is the only way to diagnose and configure the boards. In addition you need the MKUSB to find out what mode switches on your RC controller are doing. Without it you have no idea which switch turns on altitude hold, carefree and other modes. Not knowing this info is extremely dangerous. I can give a couple examples how you can crash by not knowing which mode you are in or how your stuff is configured.

It sounds like you have a faulty BL controller. A way to know for sure w/o the MKUSB is once you power up the system and it goes through its chirping, if you look underneath the power distribution board there should be a series of LED's. After the test sequence all LED's should be green. If one is RED, than you have a problem with that corresponding BL. If this is the case, this is why you can not throttle up the other motors. The MK has a safety override that will not let you go above idle if there is an issue with the system. The MKUSB will tell you for sure. To give you some more advice. I have been to Dubai, and Abu Dabbi. I know that the summer temperatures go above 45C. You will want to keep that in mind. These MK BL's heat up under heavy loads. They can reach 100C with a heavy camera when the outside temp is only 30C. I would highly suggest getting a telemetry monitoring system, if you already do not have one in your controller. If you are using a Graupner controller you can monitor things like this. Overtemping BL's are a quick way to crash, trust me I know. I did it on my practice bird.

Not to sound rude, but you are going to really need to study this system. Right now I foresee a nasty crash in your future. People crash these things all the time because of the lack of understanding how these systems work. Even experienced helli guys have crashed. A common crash happens when you takeoff in a mode called "Carefree" Carefree normalizes your control axis to where the front arm is pointing at takeoff. No matter where the front arm is pointed after this you control moves the copter in reference to the compass direction, regardless of where you put that arm. This will cause orientation problems if you are not expecting it and lead you to fly out the copter to a far distance.

Here is a good site that breaks down the MK systems called the MK manual. I highly encourage you to study this. http://www.mkmanual.com/ MK is not the most intuitive flight control system compared to DJI, especially for new guys to the "Rodeo"

Also I encourage you to get a simulator if you do not have one already, and a small training bird like a Blade MQX where you can get the rote muscle memory skills to fly. An large Octo-copter is not a good place to start.

 

[multirotorxy8]

Hello Shaun,

Just saw this post. Thank you for taking the time to address everything! First, to answer your questions, I did purchase this as a ready to fly setup from Bartman, seen above. Second, it is a complete setup with control/navi/gps.

Since I posted, I ordered and received a new mkusb. This was a day before leaving for a trip back state-side, so I was only able to get the drivers installed and plug it in briefly. I was met with a I2C error, however a google search for 'I2C error mikrokopter' brings up the gentleman I purchased this from talking about the error being persistant and non-troublesome on this same forum, so I am unsure of whether or not this is related. I am away through Thursday so I won't be able to check on the lights though I really appreciate the tip, something to point me in the right direction.

As fresh blood, I have tried digging in as much as possible. I have read and re-read the manual, often trying to figure out what the translation's intent is. Before pulling the trigger on this machine, I had practiced with the quad in Real Flight for around 4 months. I have a Blade on order as well to practice on. When the XY8 popped up, I couldn't pass on the opportunity to get it for a great deal. It was the endgame, so even if it sat for a while as I caught up, I had to grab it.

Dubai, as you said, can be a beast in the summer and I'd like to make sure I'm doing all I can do to keep in check. I am using a JR 9503, are there other options to telemetry monitoring outside of the Graupner?

Again, Shaun, I really appreciate your willingness to humor me in this journey.This is still wild-west territory, but the trails have been full of people willing to give advice, and I'm not one to turn it down.

Thanks,

Eric

Correction: I actually haven't seen this manual, only the wiki, thanks for the link, this is incredibly helpful!

 

[Holger]

Esc's calibrated, minimum throttle set?

 

[Shaun Stanton]

Hello Shaun,

Just saw this post. Thank you for taking the time to address everything! First, to answer your questions, I did purchase this as a ready to fly setup from Bartman, seen above. Second, it is a complete setup with control/navi/gps.

Since I posted, I ordered and received a new mkusb. This was a day before leaving for a trip back state-side, so I was only able to get the drivers installed and plug it in briefly. I was met with a I2C error, however a google search for 'I2C error mikrokopter' brings up the gentleman I purchased this from talking about the error being persistant and non-troublesome on this same forum, so I am unsure of whether or not this is related. I am away through Thursday so I won't be able to check on the lights though I really appreciate the tip, something to point me in the right direction.

Supposedly it is ok to have momentary I2C Errors as long as they do not persist after takeoff. This is up for debate, maybe Holger can shed more light on this since he is the head of MK in Germany. You can figure this out after the flight with the GPX tool when you plug in a 2GB Fat 16 Micro SD card into the Nav board. This is another must do. It is a way of post analyzing any anomalies that occur, or answers the dreadful question, "Why did it crash?"

Dubai, as you said, can be a beast in the summer and I'd like to make sure I'm doing all I can do to keep in check. I am using a JR 9503, are there other options to telemetry monitoring outside of the Graupner?

I was looking at the JR manual, I am afraid it has no telemetry capabilities. I use a Spektrum DX8 which is from the same company as JR. I have one less channel. The DX8 has telemetry available through a separate dongle. Unlike the Graupner, which uses information directly from the FC board and sends it to your radio, the DX8 telemetry is independent. So with your current radio, you are best to have some sort of monitoring system such as a MK bluetooth connected or an Xbee. This is cumbersome in the sense you need a laptop monitoring it at all times with MKtools. Not ideal for flying these IMO, especially since staring at a laptop in the blazing sun will be hard to do. You will want to keep full attention on the bird. I recommend setting up an FP display with a monitor and a tray where your controller can be strapped to. Next you will want to get one of these http://www.quadrocopter.com/Smart-OSD-for-MikroKopter_p_552.html it is a On screen display that interlaces with your video display. It is a third party product specifically designed for MK Avionics. Its a great tool IMO the best OSD out there. It will give you ESC temps, ground speed, altitude, NAV info, enunciation for flight modes as well as battery monitoring! If you have no other way to monitor telemetry, especially the battery, this is a MUST.

Again, Shaun, I really appreciate your willingness to humor me in this journey.This is still wild-west territory, but the trails have been full of people willing to give advice, and I'm not one to turn it down.

Thanks,

Eric

Correction: I actually haven't seen this manual, only the wiki, thanks for the link, this is incredibly helpful!

No problem hope to help. Big picture is do what you are doing and ask a lot of questions. Here is another resource also, a DVD by a friend of mine who is one the more knowledgeable experts in MK short of Holger http://rathergoodguides.com/dvdguides/RGG006A.html

I would not have gotten as far if I did if it were not for the mkmanual in the previous post.

Shaun

 

[multirotorxy8]

Esc's calibrated, minimum throttle set?

Hello Holger, I will check when I return. I have not calibrated anything myself, so it is as it was when I received it. I hadn't had the opportunity (or the knowledge, admittedly) to do much before I left on holiday. Back in a couple days and will dig in.

 

[multirotorxy8]

Supposedly it is ok to have momentary I2C Errors as long as they do not persist after takeoff. This is up for debate, maybe Holger can shed more light on this since he is the head of MK in Germany. You can figure this out after the flight with the GPX tool when you plug in a 2GB Fat 16 Micro SD card into the Nav board. This is another must do. It is a way of post analyzing any anomalies that occur, or answers the dreadful question, "Why did it crash?"

Good to know, I will certainly do this. Here's to hoping I won't have to answer that question...too often!

I was looking at the JR manual, I am afraid it has no telemetry capabilities. I use a Spektrum DX8 which is from the same company as JR. I have one less channel. The DX8 has telemetry available through a separate dongle. Unlike the Graupner, which uses information directly from the FC board and sends it to your radio, the DX8 telemetry is independent. So with your current radio, you are best to have some sort of monitoring system such as a MK bluetooth connected or an Xbee. This is cumbersome in the sense you need a laptop monitoring it at all times with MKtools. Not ideal for flying these IMO, especially since staring at a laptop in the blazing sun will be hard to do. You will want to keep full attention on the bird. I recommend setting up an FP display with a monitor and a tray where your controller can be strapped to. Next you will want to get one of these http://www.quadrocopter.com/Smart-OSD-for-MikroKopter_p_552.html it is a On screen display that interlaces with your video display. It is a third party product specifically designed for MK Avionics. Its a great tool IMO the best OSD out there. It will give you ESC temps, ground speed, altitude, NAV info, enunciation for flight modes as well as battery monitoring! If you have no other way to monitor telemetry, especially the battery, this is a MUST.

I ordered the OSD. I will be running through goggles or monitor, so this will be a great asset... no guessing on the batteries!

No problem hope to help. Big picture is do what you are doing and ask a lot of questions. Here is another resource also, a DVD by a friend of mine who is one the more knowledgeable experts in MK short of Holger http://rathergoodguides.com/dvdguides/RGG006A.html

Ordered the DVD as well, looking forward to it, as mktool certainly is a bit intimidating at first. Again really appreciate the help. Looking forward to getting back home and getting my hands dirty.

 

[Bartman]

.........................! First, to answer your questions, I did purchase this as a ready to fly setup from Bartman, seen above. ................

Yes, I sold it to Eric via an ebay auction in which I specifically stated that this was not for beginners or someone without extensive knowledge of MK systems. Soon after Eric contacted me about how to make the motors spin as he wasn't familiar with the calibration step or the arming step. He also indicated he tried using 6S packs that he had mistakenly purchased.

This was a very lightly used RTF system that I had built for a friend of mine in Texas. He didn't love the MK system and didn't have the time to figure it out beyond the basics that I could teach him over the phone. When I got it back I flew it, re-flew it, and re-re-flew it before selling it in order to make sure everything was functionally perfect. I wish I could vouch for Eric and what he's done with it since receiving it but I can't.

I listed it as a no-reserve auction on ebay as I needed it sold and didn't have time to commit to a relationship with a beginner. I'm sorry he's now having issues with it but I indicated in the auction listing it required knowledge of MK systems.

Bart

 

[Bartman]

Regarding Shaun's post of Andy's guides, Andy was banned from multirotorforums.com because he was using PM's to lure people away from MRF to another forum. In one PM he mistakenly sent to me he expressed to a MRF user that he couldn't answer the question here but would be happy to answer it if the user followed him to another web forums site.

great guy, eh?

 

[Shaun Stanton]

Yes, I sold it to Eric via an ebay auction in which I specifically stated that this was not for beginners or someone without extensive knowledge of MK systems. Soon after Eric contacted me about how to make the motors spin as he wasn't familiar with the calibration step or the arming step. He also indicated he tried using 6S packs that he had mistakenly purchased.

This was a very lightly used RTF system that I had built for a friend of mine in Texas. He didn't love the MK system and didn't have the time to figure it out beyond the basics that I could teach him over the phone. When I got it back I flew it, re-flew it, and re-re-flew it before selling it in order to make sure everything was functionally perfect. I wish I could vouch for Eric and what he's done with it since receiving it but I can't.

I listed it as a no-reserve auction on ebay as I needed it sold and didn't have time to commit to a relationship with a beginner. I'm sorry he's now having issues with it but I indicated in the auction listing it required knowledge of MK systems.

Bart

Hopefully you did not misread my question. I was not trying to imply that this was a assembly error on your part or try to place blame. I merely wanted to get the scope on what the situation was. I have seen plenty of people on the said forum that you are referring to in the next post, blow a BL because they had a DIY kit and perform poor solder jobs with frayed wires that were overlapping the PDB. I was merely trying to see if that was the case here, since Eric had mentioned he was new to this.

I can vouch for Andy, I think he is a stand up guy with good intentions. I believe his intent was that the question being asked had already been answered on the other site for which the manufacture runs for the system in question. I do not think he had anything to gain from trying to permanently divert a member from this site. He spends a lot of valuable personal time trying to help people out. He is probably one of the more knowledgeable guys on MK with the exception to Holger, and Ziggy on the US MK site. It seems to me that their is plenty of pie in the sky to be had. I believe this community should be one of cooperation and not competition, since we have mutual enemies from the ACLU, ALPA and even the FAA at the moment.

So he is actually a descent guy, I think their may have been some lack of communication on his intent. For that particular system the MK is a different animal with different issues on how it behaves. I think he was just trying to give the individual another resource, that's all. No one here has anything to gain other than sharing insight.

Shaun

 

[Bartman]

Hopefully you did not misread my question. I was not trying to imply that this was a assembly error on your part or try to place blame. I merely wanted to get the scope on what the situation was. I have seen plenty of people on the said forum that you are referring to in the next post, blow a BL because they had a DIY kit and perform poor solder jobs with frayed wires that were overlapping the PDB. I was merely trying to see if that was the case here, since Eric had mentioned he was new to this.

I can vouch for Andy, I think he is a stand up guy with good intentions. I believe his intent was that the question being asked had already been answered on the other site for which the manufacture runs for the system in question. I do not think he had anything to gain from trying to permanently divert a member from this site. He spends a lot of valuable personal time trying to help people out. He is probably one of the more knowledgeable guys on MK with the exception to Holger, and Ziggy on the US MK site. It seems to me that their is plenty of pie in the sky to be had. I believe this community should be one of cooperation and not competition, since we have mutual enemies from the ACLU, ALPA and even the FAA at the moment.

So he is actually a descent guy, I think their may have been some lack of communication on his intent. For that particular system the MK is a different animal with different issues on how it behaves. I think he was just trying to give the individual another resource, that's all. No one here has anything to gain other than sharing insight.

Shaun

Shaun,

I hear what you're saying and I've conducted myself as an admin that believes everyone is free to go where they'd like. I've never dissuaded people from posting links to other sites and have even linked to a few other forums sites myself. Using PM's as he did was unusual and it was only because he sent it to me by mistake that I found out about it.

Here's what he sent;

Hi F_777:I saw your posting, but, as I'm primarily working on
forum.freeflysystems.com (which is focussed on professional users of the
Cinestar 6/8 such as yourself), I'll not reply in full on this forum.


If you'd care to register on that forum, I'll be happy to reply so that the
other forum users see the answer.


The only caveat is that, as the forum is for professional users, please use
your real first and last name when you register.


Regards
Andy
(Oh...in the interests of full disclosure, I'm one of the moderators of that
forum)

I don't think your defense of him in this case is very accurate. After all, how many other users were approached by Andy and redirected to the Freefly forums? What do you do with your time? What would your response be if you were made aware of this type of activity in the things you endeavor to do well with?

Regarding Eric's XY8, I wish I could offer to help but he's in Dubai. Another premise of the ebay auction was no international shipping. He made use of a military address so off it went, shipping it back to me so I can see what is what hasn't exactly been an option.

Bart

 

[Holger]

Just to stop some confusion,
My name is Holger, I do work with MK stuff, but I am not Holger the head of MK.
I actually live in Australia, right on the other side of the world!

Funny though!

 

[multirotorxy8]

A lot going on here...

Back to the question at hand:

I am back at the house, powered up and sure enough, there is the red blinking led, one blink at a time, on the bl ctrl with the motor not spinning. I have another bl ctrl on the way, but any thoughts in the meantime? Any resources to soldering the new one in when it arrives? I see the following schematics, however they are a bit over my head. Any other videos or explanations out there?

http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/BL-Ctrl_Manual

 

[multirotorxy8]

Just to stop some confusion,
My name is Holger, I do work with MK stuff, but I am not Holger the head of MK.
I actually live in Australia, right on the other side of the world!

Funny though!

Hello Holger, what are the odds?

 

[Bartman]

Eric,

I just sent a PM.

Bart