NAZA M for larger hexacopter?

[mrbonk]

Hi folks,
Just wondering if there's anyone out there who has a NAZA M on a larger hexacopter, instead of the recommended Wookong controller? In the long term, we're going to need the Wookong anyway, for waypoint flying capabilities, but I'm wondering if we can get away with a NAZA M in the meantime.

The craft is 750mm motor to motor and we're running AXI 2814/22 765KV motors, 13x6 props on a 3S setup at present. Anyone running something similar with a NAZA M?

 

[Bowley]

I'm running a 900mm +4kg Hex on Naza, works pretty well.

 

[mrbonk]

Excellent....thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to why they're recommending the Wookong once the craft is larger than their 550mm hexa? Have you encountered any stability issues with the NAZA on such a heavy craft? At present, we have a 'wobble'....sort of like a rhythmic 'nodding' with our current controller. No amount of tweaking gets rid of it That's why we want to try the NAZA while we're gearing up for the Wookong.

 

[Bowley]

No stability issues at all, check out Giatrakos for some footage of Naza's on big birds.

 

[PeterLester]

I believe there are many factors beyond just software issues such as gain adjustment. A friend has the exact opposite situation with a WKM that was resolved by changing both prop diameter and pitch and/or arm lengths....... finding the mechanical sweet spot where everything works the way you want it to.

Excellent....thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to why they're recommending the Wookong once the craft is larger than their 550mm hexa? Have you encountered any stability issues with the NAZA on such a heavy craft? At present, we have a 'wobble'....sort of like a rhythmic 'nodding' with our current controller. No amount of tweaking gets rid of it That's why we want to try the NAZA while we're gearing up for the Wookong.

 

[mrbonk]

We've tried several different prop types/sizes and also 3S and 4S combinations of both. In forward flight, it does the same thing.....slowly nods forwards/backwards as it's moving along. Very irritating when you're trying to film with it!

 

[kloner]

take all the props off, fire it up at varrying rpm and feel each arm. is any of them shaking worse than others?

 

[heli001]

Kloner is right....You need to balance the props then eliminate any vibrations on the rest of the bird..........The NAZA should fly just about anything........we've had one with GPS on an S800 and NO problems at all. Hell...it flies just about as good as the WooKong......

 

[mrbonk]

We've spent a lot of time balancing and tuning the large hexy.....it's not vibes. The controller just doesn't seem to be able to stabilise it. We've used the controller on a couple of smaller craft and they seemed to go ok, but on the big hexy it's just not happening for us. At first I thought it might be because we're running a 3S setup with large props, but when we tried it on 4S and smaller props it just didn't have the static lifting capacity of the larger props.

I've been in contact with a DJI agent and I'm being told that I should definitely *not* put a NAZA on a larger craft (for a variety of reasons). So it looks like we'll be going with the WookM after all (funding permitting)

 

[Bowley]

We've spent a lot of time balancing and tuning the large hexy.....it's not vibes. The controller just doesn't seem to be able to stabilise it. We've used the controller on a couple of smaller craft and they seemed to go ok, but on the big hexy it's just not happening for us. At first I thought it might be because we're running a 3S setup with large props, but when we tried it on 4S and smaller props it just didn't have the static lifting capacity of the larger props.

I've been in contact with a DJI agent and I'm being told that I should definitely *not* put a NAZA on a larger craft (for a variety of reasons). So it looks like we'll be going with the WookM after all (funding permitting)

Did DJI expand on those reasons? not to be cynical, but I'm very sure economics would pretty high on the list.

 

[mrbonk]

Did DJI expand on those reasons? not to be cynical, but I'm very sure economics would pretty high on the list.

The reasons offered are as follows:

• Marked improvement in stability in gusty conditions WookM
• Marked improvement in control response and pilot feel on cyclic WookM
• noticeable improvement in smoothness of yaw control for video ops WookM
• noticeable gimbal smoothness on WookM
• noticeable improvement in max speed runs WookM
• noticeably larger deadband on throttle in naza hover - really annoying to experienced pilots
• naza can flip when taken outside its comfort zone (of hovering) or when fitted with CF props or exposed to strong gusty conditions
• + all the specification difference you can find in any spreadsheet - include yaw control when flying a hex on 5 eng and the in-ability to fly an octa - or a Ysix if a lower prop fails
• the lack of a custom motor mixer
• the lack of waypoints upgrade
• the lack of iOSD

 

[FerdinandK]

Here a collection of copter where I had installed both:

Quad 650mm 14x8 Props AUW up to 3kg 4S setup:
WKM:

Naza:

Ecilop Quad 700mm 14x8 props AUW up to 3kg; 4S setup
WKM:

Naza:

Hexa 1000mm Props 15x7,5 AUW up to 5,5kg 6Ssetup
WKM:

Naza:

As far as the stability in gusty conditions is concerned, the important points here are the speed of the control loop. In this point both Naza and WKM are not the fastest, but it can be compensated but the correct choice of propellers (pitch>=diameter/2).

I am not sure what "pilot feel" is about, but from my point of view Atti-mode with alt-hold is the opposite of "pilot-feel" if you want more direct response, manual-mode is the correct choice (and I "felt" no difference between WKM and Naza).

If you want a "smooth" yaw, you should change the "servo-speed" in your RC-TX, I have set this to one second, then yaw becomes smooth as silk.

The gimbal on both WKM and Naza can be as smooth a possible, but to get a "smooth" video it is insufficient. (control-loop is too slow using servo driven gimbals, let us see what the BL-gimbals will bring about). The only stabilization system I had in hands that worked (beside the Zenmuse) was the Ecilop, which uses some sort of "physical" stability to overcome the problems of servo-driven gimbals.

The max speed (possible within gps-atti) is dependent on the setup of your system, it is simply the speed the copter takes when the Copter is at max forward angle, again this depends on the props. Of course in manual-mode you can go much faster (if your setup is able to do so).

The "deadband" of throttle can be set up and modified within your RC-Transmitter-Setup (Throttle-Curve). (Until now I did not "feel" a difference).

Never observed a "lip" "when taken outside its comfort zone" and I am using CF-props, and I am flying in gusty conditions. But I can only refer again to the prop setup when flying in gusty conditions.

Summarizing, I am not able to determine a difference when flying, but I have to commit, that all this can be due to the fact, that I am still on 5.08 FW on the WKM.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[Bowley]

The reasons offered are as follows:

• Marked improvement in stability in gusty conditions WookM
• Marked improvement in control response and pilot feel on cyclic WookM
• noticeable improvement in smoothness of yaw control for video ops WookM
• noticeable gimbal smoothness on WookM
• noticeable improvement in max speed runs WookM
• noticeably larger deadband on throttle in naza hover - really annoying to experienced pilots
• naza can flip when taken outside its comfort zone (of hovering) or when fitted with CF props or exposed to strong gusty conditions
• + all the specification difference you can find in any spreadsheet - include yaw control when flying a hex on 5 eng and the in-ability to fly an octa - or a Ysix if a lower prop fails
• the lack of a custom motor mixer
• the lack of waypoints upgrade
• the lack of iOSD

Not sure what actually pertains to the size factor there.
Yeah I would expect better performance and features as described, from the WKM given the difference in price but I see no fundamental reason there as to why Naza should not be used on Larger MR's. In that respect those reasons give comfort me that I'm not doing anything totally out of spec, as I did have reservations after reading the statement in the manual about not using it on larger craft.
I have never used a WKM so I cant compare from experience but at the moment I am happy with the Naza. Its handling some fairly strong winds very well in terms of flight stability.
Yeah the gimbal control is crap! but your going to want a standalone gimbal controller anyway, even with the WKM.
Limited to 6 motors, yeah, that is annoying, unless you only want 6 motors.
I dont know how they can say it cant handle a coax prop failure, it depends on so many factors. that goes for the WKM also, they cannot really state that it has redundancy unless they specify an acceptable power to load ratio.
I probably will swing to WKM eventually but at the moment I have 3 Naza's on craft from 330 to 900 and dont see much difference in performance through the sizes. Thats just my experience with Naza.

 

[heli001]

It basically boils down to 400 versus 1,000....If you can see and feel the 600 dollar diference....buy the WKM.

The short answer is....the NAZA seems to be able to handle larger Hex's, without too much difference in control. I have flown both, on S800's in pretty windy conditions and honestly, I can not see much difference in performance. As stated, the setup is the key to everything...Balance....Viberations....COG, etc......and setting up your Transmitter, for the job at hand.

 

[vulcan2go]

I'm with Boley on this. I have fitted and flown Naza on two DJI450 quads, two TBS Discovery quads, a DJI550 hex and a 900 Vulcan all without issue. I've flown the 900 Vulcan in 25mph crosswinds without problems. The one thing that is not great is the gimbal control but apart from that the other main functions work well (for me).

Cheers,

 

[Bowley]

I like the Naza, and also fly a Vulcan 900.
Although looking now for a telemetry system I find it really annoying that I'm going to have to lug about 2 GPS units. I mean the GPS is there and they have iOSD for WKM.
So basically all the info is there but you just can't get it. With this in mind, I am very drawn to the YS-X4. with GCS data, waypoint Nav, Target point Lock, Follow me etc etc. the thing that lures me the most is that supports up to Octo's
at the price it got to be worth a try.

 

[Shadow74]

Here is a video of my 900mm Hexacopter

I am flying the DJI Naza FC and so far i am very pleased with the results. Testing Xoar 14x6 Wooden props in this video (as well as the retracts) and I couldn't be happier.

Literally vibration free.

(Now just to tidy up my wiring and add the LED Nav lights and she will be all done.)

Eric

 

[vulcan2go]

I am flying the DJI Naza FC and so far i am very pleased with the results. Testing Xoar 14x6 Wooden props in this video (as well as the retracts) and I couldn't be happier.

Literally vibration free.

(Now just to tidy up my wiring and add the LED Nav lights and she will be all done.)

Eric

Hi Eric,

Looks very smooth buddy - can you tell me more about your retract system - can you post some pictures and a description of how you set it up?

Cheers,

 

[Cameraj]

I'm running a 900mm +4kg Hex on Naza, works pretty well.

What type of naza gains to you run on a 900? What s the best way to balance a large bird like that?
thanks

 

[Vipe]

I am also interested to know gains for 900mm size copter. It is not easy test that size birds with hands in center plate... =)