Multi rotor camera mounts, the good, the bad, and the ugly

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Ok guys, lets start the ball rolling over here. I think an open and honest discussion about camera mounts for multirotor craft is a good place to start since we all seem to have some level of experience with them.

I'll start by listing what I've used so far, the MK HiSight II, the PhotoshipOne mkTR, and the PhotoHigher ProMini. I'll think over my experiences with each one and post the details later as time permits.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
well Ken, the MKTR I bought from you seems like it'll be great for photos but there's play in roll and nick so i expect to get the same jitters in my video that a lot of others have reported getting. my initial goal is primarily photography though so i'm under no pressure to come up with a better solution. i'm surprised that my T2i is such a tight fit in the mount with practically no room for video out and the shutter release plugs.
 

From my experience and from doing research for a long time on the subject there doesn't seem to be a magic bullet camera mount that solves all the issues a Aerial photographer may have with their machines. The main things being shaking from wind and vibrations from the motors and props themselves. In relation to this, how well the mount compensates for these effects. There are a few other things you want to consider when buying a mount. What cameras do you plan on using? Will it fit in the given mount? Do you plan on running wires? Will they get caught in a pivot point? ect..
Of the 3 mounts I've used in the year since flying my Hexakopter (The Patiro, the MD1, the MKTR,) I've not been extremely happy with any of them. I am still working with the MKTR to get things fine tuned and perhaps get some better results than I have been getting. So far the video off the MKTR is good but not great as I had hoped. Of the 3 I've tried I like how the MKTR tries to compensate for the vibrations that occur and IMHO it does a pretty good job of it with it's clever design but it does plenty wrong as well. My main grievances with the MKTR are the price and the amount of labor involved in assembly. It is a good mount and I'm still ironing out things on my Hexa as well as the mount to make it better. Another positive is the open back which makes it easier to run wires. I will report back further.

The MD1 mount is a mount I recommend for beginner or intermediate flyers who want a great quality mount but don't want to break the bank. It does an excellent job for stills and video can be very good. It does not do as great a job as the MKTR as far as vibration reduction but it's half the cost, takes almost no time to assemble and mount, and does take very good video. It looks great but does not have a geared tilt or pan. The good thing about the MD1 is that it is huge so you can use a multitude of cameras. It also has an open back so running wires for FPV is no issue. I'm a huge fan of this mount for it's versatility, it's simplicity, and it's durability. It was just not what I needed as I'm in search of super high quality video.

The Patiro is a slick little mount that we received when we bought our Hexa. It looks cool and it worked great for a time but had issues off the bat. The tolerances between parts where so great in certain areas i had to hot glue the parts together so they would not jiggle. The roll gear was belt driven and never centered right and the gear itself became stripped and unusable. We were forced to lock down the roll function which basically made the thing an overpriced one axis mount. Their is a pivot bar in the back of the mount for roll, it's what attaches to the belt and gear. This pivot bar made it easy to get wires caught or crimped if you were planning on flying FPV or had some other wires coming off the camera. The camera trey was very narrow and didn't allow for a variety of cameras. There was no real way to mount the thing either. I had to fabricate a mounting plate just so I could attach it to the hexa. I do not recommend the Patiro at all!

This is all off the top of my head and it probably sounds like it. I will add to it as I think of more information you may want to know. I will also add some video to show the examples of the three.
Eric
 

DennyR

Active Member
I have to say. I have not seen a commercial camera mount for a model helicopter that I would spend money on (YET) too many misconceptions about where the stability comes from. Full size technology reveals that it requires two systems, an inner and an outer axis. The outer one works with gyros that need 150 - 300 deg/sec response and an inner one, that is isolated from vibration, and uses 50Deg/sec that have a sensitivity that is 80 times higher and this axis moves about 3 degrees only.
I have cracked it, but it costs a lot more than most would want to pay and you need a very heavy lift purpose built Okto to carry it. There are some new affordable gyro products that have recently been released which could change that. As my design narrows down to what could be produced commercially I believe that a Hexa will end up as being the ideal platform. We are all getting there, but it takes time.
 

DennyR

Active Member
The state of the art aerial camera system is the Cineflex, it weighs 67 lbs and it costs me about 5 K per day to rent or 400 K to buy one. The AS 350 which you need to get it in the air costs 2K per hr. So anyone who gets this alternative technology up and running to that standard could make a little money.
 

You are 100% right Denny and I would consider your product if it had proven results and was within reason price wise. I think the current mounts out there today cheap ones to the expensive ones all build off of one concept or another. They make marginal improvements with out really addressing the problem.
 

DennyR

Active Member
Your right. as I can't say anything nice about the ones that I have seen, I won't comment, but I do hope that I can make the time to get a video up soon that shows what can be done with the technology that we have today. As with most cutting edge stuff it is the last 1% that takes 99% of the effort to get it right.
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
I think part the problem is a lot of the mounts out there are designed with still cameras in mind and for that use the majority of them are excellent, it's only when you get into video that the problems start to crop up and that's the point I've been trying to work around for months now. With Multirotors vibration is the enemy and they seem to have plenty to spare, minimizing and/or isolating the vibrations is the thing that seems to be eluding just about all of the manufacturers at the moment. As I noted in my original post on this subject I've tried a few different mounts now and they all have their good and bad points, really depends on what your use and expectations are if they will work for you or not. So far I haven't been 100% happy with any of the configurations I've built up, the current one being no exception though it is undoubtedly the most costly of all. Flip side is that while expensive it also happens to be the platform with the least amount of warts to deal with so there may be some redemption yet, stay tuned...

Ken
 

I agree Ken that most of the mounts are geared towards stills and they are much easier to do. The Patiro I have was marketed as a video camera mount though...makes me laugh now. Back a year ago I didn't know any better. The other thing is too that I've seen brilliant video from multirotored craft...just not any of mine! Mine is okay and I'm being nice to myself with that one, I'm my worst critic man. Anyway, I'm still trying to work with the MKTR and I've got a few tricks up my sleeve left to try. Bart gave me some custom battery holders to put on the legs of the MKTR to try and put the load further down, hopefully dampening some of the vibration. I also want to put the silicone adhesive into the rubber grommets on the MKTR as per the manual. I think it may help. I also want to get a base plate from Mark Dana who makes the MD1 mount. I can mount the thick CF base plate to the outer rim of the Hexa and not the weak center. I can then attach the MKTR to the base plate as I would normally. I think this could really help. However, the most important thing I have to do is get rid of these crap props I'm still using. I'm gonna upgrade to the APC props but need to buy the adapters as well. I just got to do it, I really won't know what I have till I do that.
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
One thing you could try with the mkTR is something I saw that someone had done over at Ziggy's site, add another set of standoffs to the battery mounts in front of the existing ones. I think what they had done was attach to the two bolts that would normally hold the flexlander supports on the stock setup giving the mkTR 4 mounting points on each end and considerably strengthening the whole attachment. I had bought another center plate and was going to work something up to make the mount better but then veered off course and bought the whole Droidworx setup so that project never got off the ground. A few more odds and ends and I'll have enough in the parts bin to assemble a basic stock Hexa though ;)

I took a compete set of spare Graupner props and gave them a careful balancing, not that they were very far off, but just to make sure they're as good as they can get. I've got a set of 5mm prop adaptors on the way from New Generation in Canada and as soon as they arrive I'll install the balanced Graupners on the new adaptors and see how much difference that makes. I don't expect to see major changes as I already have Graupners installed now, just on a set of Delrin adaptors I made on the lathe. Since the lathe and mill are low cost made in Taiwan equipment only good to about +/- .005 tolerances I'm not entirely certain that the adaptors are 100% concentric so I'm going this route to eliminate that as a possible cause of vibration.

Heck, I've dropped so much $ on this thing now, whats another $75 or so!
 

LOL I hear you brother. I'm familiar with the MD1 baseplate and really think it it may help plus it's only 30 bucks but I might try your suggestion in the mean time thanks. Have you flown with the standard EPP's? I'm just wondering the lift/efficiency difference between the 3 props, EPP APC Graupner. What's the pitch of the graupners? You fly a Okto right? As bad as the Epp's are they do a good job lifting my gear and I honestly don't worry about them breaking. I've flown with them long enough and never had a failure. They are crap though.
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
I did fly quite a bit with the stock EPP props and never realized just how bad they really were until I took them off and put the Graupners on, I couldn't believe the difference it made in stability. I've only ever used APC on my little aerobatic quads and then only until I had destroyed them badly enough to be of no further use which actually didn't take very long. The APC seem very brittle compared to either of the other makes, the EPP while flexible will take a fair amount of hard use before they break and they don't seem prone to chipping like the APC do. The Graupners are just incredible when it comes to toughness, I've slammed them into frozen dirt from 90 feet in the air and all that happened was one blade broke off! Some day I may get that Hovefly quad to stop doing that, but that's a topic for a different discussion...

So the APC and EPP are both 10 x 4.5, the Graupners are 10 x 5. There is a difference between them but its very subtle, the main thing I notice is the added stiffness of the Graupners making the control response a bit crisper than with a more flexible prop.

No, not an Okto, the Mk is a Hexa and now residing in a Droidworx frame, my latest side trip into this lunacy of all things multirotor... ;)

Ken
 

I'm sorry I had a brain fart I knew that. I have the stock Hexa kit motors 2832/35 what would I need to do to use the Graupners? Adapters?
 


DennyR

Active Member
I came across a new anti vibration material that beats everything that I have tried before. I am not sure what it is called yet but it turned up as packing material in a box sent to me by Minsoo Kim. It is the stuff that he uses on his new mini machine for the rotor guards etc. I believe it was developed for the inner soles of sports shoes. It is easy to cut and I was able to make some complex shaped parts for a balanced beam isolator. I used a Dremel and some grinding wheels to get the shapes that I needed. This stuff beats even silicon because unlike rubber it does not immediately return to it's uncompressed state. So no oscillations.
When I get around to learning how to upload stuff here I'll post a few more details.

On the subject of prop balance, I find it hard to understand why a couple of intelligent people like H&I chose to mount their motors with the prop. on the wrong end. The further away the prop is from the mounting surface the greater the amplification of any imbalance. They then went on and used countersunk head screws in a non-countersunk hole. Come to think of it, having them on the bottom would also have been more aerodynamically efficient. But they do design great electronics.
 


RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
I'm sorry I had a brain fart I knew that. I have the stock Hexa kit motors 2832/35 what would I need to do to use the Graupners? Adapters?

You will need a set of these... http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=125&products_id=591 and these... http://www.electricwingman.com/graupner/propeller-hub-spacer/8mm/5mm.aspx

The hub spacers you can get from the US Graupner importer in Florida as well as from Electricwingman, I can dig up the link if you want.

Ken
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Today I'm going to disassemble the Hexa and attempt a rebuild that minimizes vibration. It will be interesting to see what happens or if its even possible to do what I'm thinking of without causing other problems. First step is get the vibration levels as low as possible across the upper frame then move on to the landing gear asembly and camera mount. Some of the ideas I have would require taller landing gear and while Droidworx has a set of extended landing legs available, I'm not going to spend the $180.00 asking price, I'll buy some G10 sheets and cut my own if I think I need to go that route.

I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Ken
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
ken,
put the props under the arms. that's my plan for Son-of-Okto and I'd love to see how it helps a standard frame with airframe vibrations. it's an easy mod for standard frames, I just haven't had the time to pull my stuff apart when I'm still trying to get rev 1.0 done and flying.
good luck,
bart
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
here is the source for the prop spacers in the US
http://www.v-eastonline.com/products/Propeller-hub-spacer8{47}5.0.html

the same place also stocks the Graupner 10" E-props
http://www.v-eastonline.com/compare/2131/2130

the hub adapters are also available from US based MK dealer quadrocopter.us
http://shop.quadrocopter.us/MK-Propeller-mount-5mm_p_158.html

hope that helps. of course, if you want to try wood props ;), i'm trying to get an order together for Xoar's 10x5 wood PJA and PJA-P props. Xoar makes very high quality props. I was hoping to get their attention with an order for 50 or 60 (or more) props but maybe it will have to be twenty or so.
bart
 

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