Difference between APM and NAZA???

K2snow

Member
Im looking to buy a used multi and some of the ones I see have APM Flight Controllers. Is there a primary difference? Something I should be aware of?
 

Old Man

Active Member
Night and day. An idiot can fly Naza until something goes wrong. Same can be said for an RTF APM but at least with the APM one has the ability to customize as needed or desired.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jdennings

Member
I fly wkm and pixhawks, and just naza-m from Phantom, so no expert on Naza. But in general:

Naza: Easy and fast to set-up.
APM/Pixhawk: Complex, powerful, and extremely customizable, significant learning curve.
If you just want as close as possible to RTF, want to simply fly around, or do photography/filming with easy to integrate sub-systems (iosd, zenmuse gimbal, lightbridge), and want to get going fast go Naza.
If you want to fly fully automated missions, be able to analyze flight characteristics, look at flight logs, use a system that can be expandable or upgradable(e.g. better gps, sonar), choose from a wide array of different flight modes, go Pixhawk.

As of Ardupilot 3.1/3.2 I find them both comparable in terms of performance/stability (Naza atti and GPS vs Pixhawk Alt Hold and Position Hold). Ardupilot has an edge imho when it comes to reliability, as it is opensource and problems can and are better identified, analyzed, and remedied by a large community. DJI is silent on any issues, won't admit to them, and support is inexistant.
 

An idiot can fly Naza

Ohhhhhhhhhh.. I've always spoken well of you.

I have 4 Naza's and one APM.
I have learned more on the APM then the Naza.
Not so much about flying but tuning and I still feel like an idiot.
Unless you are prepared for frustration, or are an out of the box genius, I'd stick with the Naza for a first timer.
I will also say that which ever you choose, you will get lots of help here on this forum.
 

FerdinandK

Member
Go for a visit on the next Multirotormeeting in your vicinity, have a look and talk to people. Also if you want you can count.

best regards
Ferdinand

The last meeting I attended there where ...., and yes there was also one copter with APM (at least one more than Zero or Xaircraft)
 

Quinton

Active Member
Is there a Pixhawk for dummies tutorial anywhere.
I have an A2 sitting on a machine here which I am reluctant to fly, and I have been waiting on a few updates for it, but it doesn't seem to be getting any better, so I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.
Where would be the best place to start, and maybe we could start a new thread here "Pixhawk for dummies"
 


Old Man

Active Member
Is there a Pixhawk for dummies tutorial anywhere.
I have an A2 sitting on a machine here which I am reluctant to fly, and I have been waiting on a few updates for it, but it doesn't seem to be getting any better, so I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.
Where would be the best place to start, and maybe we could start a new thread here "Pixhawk for dummies"

For Stitch first. Buddy, the implication was that Naza was that simple to operate. It doesn't take much to get that one going, but Naza is vastly limited compared to Pixhawk. You have to admit though, there have been a few idiots at the sticks with all of them.

As for a Pixhawk tutorial, the previous link is a good start but there is a tremendous amount if user information at APMcopter.com. There's a lot if reading if you open up the full index, and a great many links to follow on the various pages as you move through the info. There are also quite a lot of You Tube videos. Just use Pixhawk and or 3d Robotics for search terms.

There is much to learn but that's why it works so well for those that expend the effort. FYI, if you have a 550mm quad the defaults are a good starting place. Read about auto tune and how to use it. You get spoiled real fast if you do. After that it's often just fine tuning to suit your taste and equipment add ons. Mission planner is a wonderful tool. Oh, never, ever download a beta software release unless you understand up front you want to be a guinea pig. Just use the normal release versions.
 

Quinton

Active Member
OK hope you don't mind me asking here, as I don't like being the new boy in other forums until I get to grips with what I need.

I have been bitten in the past with stuff that I do not need, and I do not want to do the same this tme.
What exactly would I need to buy to get rid of the A2 and replace it with Pixhawk controller.

I am in UK so will post Uk links if that is ok, but so far I have found the following..

http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/3dr-pixhawk.html
http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/3dr-gps-mast-mount.html
http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/3dr-ublox-gps-with-compass-lea-6h.html

Are these required to start or is the mast not required, and is there anything more, just want to make sue I get everything I need before starting a new learning curve.
I do have an X8 carboncore sitting around, is there any size weight limit to to the pixhawk, and any other recommendations before i take the leap.
In other words if you were buying a system what parts would you buy, I do know the naza, wookong and A2 but as you can understand I do not know what hardware I require to get started with the Pixhawk.
[MENTION=12570]Old Man[/MENTION] the link you gave above does not exist.
 
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jdennings

Member
Yes, looks like that'll get you going. The mast is not required but I'd recommend it, it allows you to get your gps+ mag higher and further away from any power magnetic interference (mag).
You'd need a ppm encoder if you don't have sbus but if you fly dji I assume it's not the case.

Default tune settings have always worked for me from small quad to 10kg+ X8, (except for a very unusual high speed monster), I'd recommend flying on stock settings first, then do fast roll and pitch twitches manually (see a video of autotune at work to see the kind of twitches) to make sure you don't have any issues with esc/motor syncs. Then auto-tune.
 

jfro

Aerial Fun
quinton... I have a Naza v2, Xaircraft, hoverfly, and Pixhawk. This is my 2nd year flying and I've spent a lot of time buidling and learning to fly. (to much time on gimbals).

Anyway, I've put my Pixhawk on a 450 then 550 quad. I'd would learn it on something you have laying around you don't care about or maybe a littel f450 or f550 quad with inexpensive motors and props.

I like the Pixhawk, but there is a lot of learning a some gotchas. I've had one crash ($400 dollar one) and one flip over (broke 2 props). 1st was my fault for not understanding what the throttle characteristics are in different modes. Expensive lesson. 2nd happened on a take off which I suspect was / is caused by being plugged into the battery for 2 long before taking off. I had this happen once before, (without breaking anything on the flip at launch). It happened yesterday after fiddling with the tablet to make some waypoints. Was out in the boonies and google maps wasn't coming up. Left the battery plugged in while I messed with the tablet. Gave up and just decided to fly normally. Very weird behavior as it lifted up and then flip and boom.

I'm pretty carefull and cautious, but human so I accept these mistakes. Unfortunately, you have to do a lot of reading and retention and then there still are some learning the hard way.

I was just contemplating putting it on my more expensive quad or maybe my big x8. After the weird flip, have decided will wait for another 40-50 flights... Like next year some time....,.

I'd say go for it, but don't put it on a good frame or a lot of money in the air till you are comfortable. Part of the problem is it can do so much you are constantly trying new things. Fortunately, on my flip I just had a weight to simulate the camera so no harm done other than 2 cheap props.
 

jdennings

Member
BTW Quinton, since you are in Europe, you may want to substitute that lea 6h GPS/mag combo for the neo 8m+ compass combo from Virtual Robotix in Italy. (http://www.virtualrobotix.com/profi...first-plug-and-play-multi-constallation-gps-g)
Advertised as Plug and play replacement, and the 8m is head and shoulders above the Ublox (and wkm gps) when it comes to # of satellites read and precision. Not sure if it's already available, you may want to check wth Virtual Robotix for that and any plug and play gotchas.
 

Quinton

Active Member
I want it just to basically teach myself how it all works, not for anything exciting.
Just watched that autotune, that is pretty cool however they said that it would not work too well on anything lower than 450Kv motors, mine are 370Kv, is there any truth in that?
I'm intrigued now after watching a couple of videos, it looks a good bit more advanced than DJI FC.

@jdennings its the gotchas I want to try and avoid, so the more info on the best hardware at this stage the better.
 
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Old Man

Active Member
Had some near roll overs when C/G was off center too much. Never had it after leaving a battery plugged in to long. As a rule I don't arm until ready to fly so I haven't experienced anything after arming and sitting awhile.

Pixhawk works stellar with uBlox on a stick. Might want to check with 3dR before swapping for something different. My best suggestion is to read a lot before you buy anything, not after. Use the published documentation for the basis of what you buy or don't buy, not tribal knowledge.
 

jdennings

Member
Works on mine, X8 with 380kv motors and 17" props on 6S. Also with 420KV motors. In fact (but I may be a little extreme for some), successful auto-tune is one of my requirements for an air worthy copter, including large octos.
That said, I am with jfro as far as getting to know Pixhawk, starting with a smaller and less expensive rig is a safer route.
 

JoeBob

Elevation via Flatulation
I'm swapping a Pixhawk in for a Naza now. I've only 2 Naza birds experience behind me. Flew it yesterday for the first time.

attachment.php


The hardest part for me was programming the Futaba to register 6 flight modes without giving up my only 2 position switch that I was using as a camera switcher. Had to reverse some channels to match the radio calibration screen, and then had to put them back to match how the MR actually flew.

The Pixhawk is much more complex than the Naza. Assume that you have 30 toggles/options for a fight; if one is wrong you may enjoy the kiss of gravity. If all toggles are correct, you'll have a rock solid highly programmable machine/system for many dollars less than the DJI/flyaway equivalent. Having the Naza experience first has made the Pixhawk easier. I would not recommend Pixhawk for your first build.

The Pixhawk direct from 3DR included the FC, the power module, and the remote USB/LED.
https://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-pixhawk
The remote USB ends in a heavy metallic port, so I butchered my gimbal vibration mount to preserve access to the USB in the side:
attachment.php


Options:
Ublox compass/GPS ($80) - yes! Or you'll just have a complicated Naza without being able use half of the flight modes or Mission Planner.
You may want to get the 3DR mast because it comes with a longer 6 wire cable. I had to trim the mast on my folding mount to make the stock cable reach. And I don't like how the short cable is exposed.

Telemetry Radio ($100) - probably. These work in place of a USB cable to feed data/missions to the FC. I haven't learned how to save the Radio configurations yet (despite using the 'Save Data' button), so I have to calibrate every time I connect. Did I mention the learning curve?
There are two frequencies available, so figure out which is allowed in the UK.
 

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