Could I trouble one or more of you experienced pilots to help educate me a bit??

J

javaboy

Member
I'm a relative novice to the field and I do try to pay attention to what you experienced pilots say here on this forum. I've learned a great deal but I find myself with a few areas of information that I really would appreciate getting up to speed. Hopefully, your answers will also help other newbies who come across this thread. Here goes:

LIPO DEPLETION:

1) I've seen a general rule often stated to not go below 20% of your batter capacity. I note that after I land and shut down the battery voltage will rise. Is the goal to leave your battery with 20% or more AFTER landing and removing the current load? Or, is the 20% a guideline you use as the maximum drop in voltage while you are flying?

2) In that regard, I have read about the Quanum Telemetry system that shows you all cells of your battery. The information posted on the HobbyKing site says: "The Quanum Telemetry system will also warn you when your battery pack is approaching 3.2v per cell with a variable audio tone. No more deadstick landings!" Is it prudent to use the value of the lowest cell as your measuring stick, or do you use the total voltage of the system as the value you watch? I would assume some cells deplete sooner than others so that the system average would often be higher than the lowest cell value (?)

3) I have also read two posts from seemingly knowledgeable pilots who flatly state that modern batteries can go below the 20% (I believe one guy uses 10%). Are there any current studies that address this issue objectively?

LED STRIPS

1) I have gotten some LED strips from HobbyKing that take 12 volts. Do most people power LEDs from the flight battery and, if so, how do most people step down the voltage? (BEC or simple resister circuit?)

2) I've seen references to some people who power LEDs from the flight battery balance plug by combining cells to match the LED strip required voltage. It would seem to me that this would not be prudent as it would tend to draw down on the battery unevenly. Is this correct?

3) What is the best way to be able to switch LEDs on and off remotely from your radio? I assume there is a simple way to switch them using a spare servo channel but I'm not sure what circuitry would be involved.

GAINS

1) I've seen discussions regarding the GAINS for the WKM system and I believe I understand them generally. However, I note that the Assistant software gives me only two channels to be able to control gains live in the air (X2 and X3). Is it possible to control more than two gain values while flying?

2) Assuming I am going to limit myself to only two channels, which gains tend to be an aggregate so that assigning a single knob to them makes sense? (i.e., pitch/yaw? etc.)


MANY THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR HELPING THOSE OF US WHO ARE AT THE FRONT END OF THE LEARNING CURVE!!!!!!
 

J

javaboy

Member
Hey, any comments/help on ANY of my queries would be greatly appreciated. ... No responses at all makes me think I've done something wrong by asking these questions here or in the way I've done it. I apologize humbly if I've committed some sort of faux pas....
 

H

hpmc

Member
The way i control the leds is using a brushed esc say 8 or 10 amp then you can adjust the brightness.when it is getting dust they are to bright so this sorts that out
 


BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Ill answer as much as possible time wise and what can be explained easily.

javaboy said:
I'm a relative novice to the field and I do try to pay attention to what you experienced pilots say here on this forum. I've learned a great deal but I find myself with a few areas of information that I really would appreciate getting up to speed. Hopefully, your answers will also help other newbies who come across this thread. Here goes:

LIPO DEPLETION:

1) I've seen a general rule often stated to not go below 20% of your batter capacity. I note that after I land and shut down the battery voltage will rise. Is the goal to leave your battery with 20% or more AFTER landing and removing the current load? Or, is the 20% a guideline you use as the maximum drop in voltage while you are flying?


2) In that regard, I have read about the Quanum Telemetry system that shows you all cells of your battery. The information posted on the HobbyKing site says: "The Quanum Telemetry system will also warn you when your battery pack is approaching 3.2v per cell with a variable audio tone. No more deadstick landings!" Is it prudent to use the value of the lowest cell as your measuring stick, or do you use the total voltage of the system as the value you watch? I would assume some cells deplete sooner than others so that the system average would often be higher than the lowest cell value (?)

3) I have also read two posts from seemingly knowledgeable pilots who flatly state that modern batteries can go below the 20% (I believe one guy uses 10%). Are there any current studies that address this issue objectively?

LED STRIPS

1) I have gotten some LED strips from HobbyKing that take 12 volts. Do most people power LEDs from the flight battery and, if so, how do most people step down the voltage? (BEC or simple resister circuit?)

2) I've seen references to some people who power LEDs from the flight battery balance plug by combining cells to match the LED strip required voltage. It would seem to me that this would not be prudent as it would tend to draw down on the battery unevenly. Is this correct?

3) What is the best way to be able to switch LEDs on and off remotely from your radio? I assume there is a simple way to switch them using a spare servo channel but I'm not sure what circuitry would be involved.

GAINS

1) I've seen discussions regarding the GAINS for the WKM system and I believe I understand them generally. However, I note that the Assistant software gives me only two channels to be able to control gains live in the air (X2 and X3). Is it possible to control more than two gain values while flying?

2) Assuming I am going to limit myself to only two channels, which gains tend to be an aggregate so that assigning a single knob to them makes sense? (i.e., pitch/yaw? etc.)


MANY THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR HELPING THOSE OF US WHO ARE AT THE FRONT END OF THE LEARNING CURVE!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Lipos

1)

What you are interested in is what happens during flight. Don't want to get into the discussion how low lips can go etc. What you don't want is that even after flight the lipo is at 3.6 per cell you don't want the lipo during flight to sink below 3.2 for example. Even the short bursts of lowe voltage can lead to damage, its just risky.

I take my bird down if I see 3.5 per cell once no matter what it recover to in a normal hover afterwards. But this is only with the big birds with the smaller I risk more.

2)

The best way is to have an overview of all the cells. Forget any lipo warning etc. Have your cell voltage in front of you. If one cell drops fast something is wrong with you lipo. Which can lead to the failure of one cell, which can result in a crash or fast fall what ever you setup is made for lipo wise. The general overview of the added up V of you lipo is good better is per cell. The added up value will not warn you if a cell in in the process of failing.

3)

No its a discussion showing up etc. Be on the safe side and don't go below 20% or the desired voltage per cell that seems safe to you. Not worth risking expensive setups.

LEDS

1) Depends were your LEDs are attached and which ones you have. I have some LEDs rated to 14v I run them with 16.8 full 4s and its doable. The question though is how hot they get etc. can you damage them or cause a short if they get so hot that they desolder themselves etc. Again I would go for the safe side use a BEC or https://www.mikrocontroller.com/ind...id=573&zenid=b9294f54235de2caea3e2eb65b2a0d39. Just take care how much they draw A wise.

2) I personally would do that just too much wiring and if you want to hook up a telemetry that reds single cells than its even more a mess. Yes specific cells would draw faster but that a question how mach you draw from them. A moderate LED setup drawing 1A or 2 A shouldt be a problem.

3) There are several products out there, you'll have to google for it. Even setups were the LEDs blink when the lipo hits a certain V etc. I don't use it so i couldn't recommend any !

Gains

1) No only two channels

2) Put roll pitch yaw on one knob and attitude roll pitch on the second.
Set that up first so you have a smooth flying copter and the attitude gains give you the responsivness that you desire. Than test how good the altitude hold is. Fast forward flight and stopping bird does it change altitude. If so and you are not happy. Assign only vertical on one know and find the best value

Boris
 

Jake Bullit

Jake Bullit

Fly,crash,glue,repeat!
I use led strips,just put an extra JST connector on my power harness and plug them into that.I don`t switch mine off,they`re permantly plugged in,any orientation help I can get is useful.
I use red and green on the front and white on the rear,they run direct off 4s on my Y6(VERY BRIGHT).



As regard lipo depletion I use a cheap lipo alarm set to 3.5v,and land asap after the alarm goes off.
 
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R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
javaboy said:
I'm a relative novice to the field and I do try to pay attention to what you experienced pilots say here on this forum. I've learned a great deal but I find myself with a few areas of information that I really would appreciate getting up to speed. Hopefully, your answers will also help other newbies who come across this thread. Here goes:

LIPO DEPLETION:

1) I've seen a general rule often stated to not go below 20% of your batter capacity. I note that after I land and shut down the battery voltage will rise. Is the goal to leave your battery with 20% or more AFTER landing and removing the current load? Or, is the 20% a guideline you use as the maximum drop in voltage while you are flying?
Click to expand...

Not all lipo batteries are manufactured to the same quality standards, as a general rule of thumb you should not discharge them beyond the point that they take 80% of their rated capacity to recharge. Some of the better batteries can tolerate discharging to 90% more times than a cheap pack but in the long run it will shorten the useful life of the battery. Best practice is to stay within the 80% rule and after flying if you do not plan on using the packs again for a few days storage charge them. If your charger does not have a storage charge mode then simply balance charge them to 60% of rated capacity, storage charging will extend the life of the battery beyond just leaving them wherever they wind up after use.


As far as in flight battery monitoring I use two method. First I fly a lot of FPV so those multis have an OSD that displays battery voltage and current used on the screen, I know exactly what the status of the battery is in flight and land as it gets near the 80% mark. For the other multis that I fly LOS I use a TX timer along with knowing how long that multi will fly on the battery being used before it hits 80% discharge. The only way to do that is to set the timer for an arbitary time like 5 minutes and fly. AFter 5 minutes remove the battery and recharge to see how much mA you put back into the pack. Keep incrementing the time limit until you find the 80% discharge point then set the timer a bit less so it goes off around the 70% mark so you have a safetly margin for returning to the takeoff point. It helps to use the same type and mA rated batteries using this method as they should all be within a few % of the rest if they are decent quality batteries.


javaboy said:
2) In that regard, I have read about the Quanum Telemetry system that shows you all cells of your battery. The information posted on the HobbyKing site says: "The Quanum Telemetry system will also warn you when your battery pack is approaching 3.2v per cell with a variable audio tone. No more deadstick landings!" Is it prudent to use the value of the lowest cell as your measuring stick, or do you use the total voltage of the system as the value you watch? I would assume some cells deplete sooner than others so that the system average would often be higher than the lowest cell value (?)
Click to expand...

A telemetry system is also a good method but can also be a distraction while learning to fly. Even if you have flight experience with planes or SRH there will be a learning curve on a multirotor, primarily keeping orientation. Biggest issue obviously is a multirotor looks the same from any orientation unlike a plane or heli, use whatever method makes sense for you to help out but I find the best method is to concentrate on the flying and always fly one or two stick movements ahead of the multi in your head and to do that you need to avoid distraction until it becomes automatic and you don't have to think about it anymore. The other part is if you're discharging packs to 3.2 volts per cell you're going way below the 80% rule and with a multi if you let the voltage get too low it won't be a deadstick landing, it will be more like a dead brick landing!

javaboy said:
3) I have also read two posts from seemingly knowledgeable pilots who flatly state that modern batteries can go below the 20% (I believe one guy uses 10%). Are there any current studies that address this issue objectively?
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone somewhere has but I don't have a link to anything. In my experience I've accidentally done dumb things like leave a pack plugged in and ran it down to 3 volts per cell and been able to revive it but it was never quite the same afterward. In my early days using lipo batteries I routinely used to fly my Trex450 heli to low voltage cutoff before landing and otherwise abused the packs by not storage charging them or even balance charging them every cycle. Those were good quality Align batteries and they did last a long time but probably would have lasted even longer and performed better if I had followed guidelines. There isn't a huge difference between running a pack down to 80% vs. 90% if you take good care of it otherwise and in fact some batteries are underrated by the manufacturer so in those cases 90% may actually only be 80%, you never really know for certain. In any case the final decision is up to you, how well you take care of them and how you use them will determine the useful life of the battery.

javaboy said:
LED STRIPS

1) I have gotten some LED strips from HobbyKing that take 12 volts. Do most people power LEDs from the flight battery and, if so, how do most people step down the voltage? (BEC or simple resister circuit?)
Click to expand...

I run LED strips directly off battery voltage by tapping into the main power distribution board or harness. 12 volt LEDs will work fine on 4S packs, I have a lot of the HK LEDs running that way and they still work great after many hours in the air, I wouldn't bother with stepping down the voltage but again the final desision is what you're most comfortable with.

javaboy said:
2) I've seen references to some people who power LEDs from the flight battery balance plug by combining cells to match the LED strip required voltage. It would seem to me that this would not be prudent as it would tend to draw down on the battery unevenly. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

LEDs don't draw much power unless you have excessive amounts in each strip. I find 6 to 9 per strip is plenty and that is a pretty low power draw. Still, I wouldn't tap into the balance plug, wire into the main power harness at some point, the wires on the balance plugs tend to be a lot more fragile than the power leads and reconnecting a broken balance lead is a PITA.

javaboy said:
3) What is the best way to be able to switch LEDs on and off remotely from your radio? I assume there is a simple way to switch them using a spare servo channel but I'm not sure what circuitry would be involved.
Click to expand...

Try one of these... http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/R-C-Controlled-On-Off-Switch.html

javaboy said:
GAINS

1) I've seen discussions regarding the GAINS for the WKM system and I believe I understand them generally. However, I note that the Assistant software gives me only two channels to be able to control gains live in the air (X2 and X3). Is it possible to control more than two gain values while flying?

2) Assuming I am going to limit myself to only two channels, which gains tend to be an aggregate so that assigning a single knob to them makes sense? (i.e., pitch/yaw? etc.)
Click to expand...

Yes, I usually have basic pitch and roll gains tied to one of the X channels, these and the ATTI pitch and roll are the only two that should be linked in that way and only where there is even weight distribution along both axis. If you're flying a multi that has uneven weight distribution than you may have to tune each one seperately. I've found that on initial setup it is useful to assign both basic pitch and roll to one X channel and the ATTI pitch and roll to the other and tune the settings in flight until you find the best setting for each. Once you know the best ATTI setting then set that to a fixed valuse in the Assistant software and use the X channel for something else. On the basic gains, use that number as the midpoint of the range of adjustment. To do that remove the X channel mapping from basic pitch and roll by setting them back to INH and save it to the controller. Now set the value to what you determined to give the best flight characteristics and save that as well. Center the knob or slider you will use for inflight adjustment to its midpoint and then reassign it to the pitch and roll. Now you can use the endpoint adjustments on the TX to determine how much that value will change at each end of the knob or slider movement. I would not go much beyond 50 points at most and usually keep mine to about 30 either side of the midpoint, I rarely find it necessary to go beyond that.


Ken
 
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J

javaboy

Member
I cannot thank all of you enough for taking the time to provide so much good information. REALLY says so much about this forum. I will definitely pay it forward as best I am able.
 


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