Beginner Seeking Advice [Aerial Film/Photo]

[PCMAerial]

Hey Guys,

First post here! I've read a few stickies, and tried to scour the internet for as much info as possible. And now I'm at my crossroads to entering the multi-rotor world. Currently I am a filmmaker with over 11 years of cinematography experience. Looking to combine my passion with a solid craft for aerial video/photography.

Purchasing my new rig is based on two factors:
1.) Budget
2.) Build Quality

I would LOVE a superior octo rig in the thousands with a huge payload for an EPIC, etc, etc. But in reality. I am looking for a rig around the $500-$750 range if that sounds realistic. Something simple-ish (Quad or Hex) that I can eventually or hopefully upgrade the build, flight time, etc using the same frame. Mostly looking at Heli Pal website for my purchase.

Planning to start flying a GoPro Hero3+ to gain the proper experience. And in time upgrade to a gimbal to hold a DSLR (5d MkIII) or a smaller camera such as the GH series for commercial use if the payload isn't there yet.

My two MAIN rig choices:
-DJI Flamewheel F550 V2.0 (Naza Lite) (Around $400 for rig, and a few hundred on controller, battery, etc)
OR
-Storm Drone 6 GPS (Around $700 "RTF" )

-The DJI I'll have to purchase transmitter, receiver, etc, etc
-The Storm says ready to fly minus some assembly which I don't mind. And already has a controller

So I'm wondering...

Am I even looking in the right direction? Anyone with proper facts about either of these rigs? After tons of research I always end up comparing these two rigs at the end of the day. Now I'm ready to take one or the other. The community here has some great advice, please any comparisons or hands on experience would be great! I am a beginner so I may not know what I'm talking about at all LOL. Thanks for reading!!

 

[chipwich]

Greetings and welcome to the forum. Within your budget, you will be hard pressed to lift more than a GoPro, so plan on 2 to 3 times that to lift a DSLR or cinema camera at a minmum. Pro rigs usually support 2 person operarion, pilot and camera, and can top $10k in a hurry. Having said that, starting off within your budget, and developing the necessary skills to build, troubleshoot, and operate a multirotor AP platform is certainly atainable. DJI products have excellent design and build quality, and are the most user friendly for the new multirotor pilot.

If aerial videography is your goal, the fastest way to go from zero to editing will be a Phantom 2 with Zenmuse 2D gimbal, just slightly over your budget. It is easy to fly, durable, and the gimbal/GoPro combo will allow you to focus on your endpoint with minimal frustration,

Some will not like that statement and say that you are skipping over the necessary step of the build, but there are a bunch of other skills and processes that need to be developed along the way, and the Phantom will allow you to start bulding those while being productive, as you go through the learning process. There are also enough mods and accesories for the Phantom to help get you into soldering or just tinker, if that is your thing.

Case in point, I`ve watched my brother go this route, and truthfully I wish that I would have. After flying his Phantom for a year, he has just finished QAV400 and QAV250 builds. My first build was an F550, which I still have and love, but by the time that I load it with FPV gear, a gimbal, landing gear and battery, the flight time is much less than the Phantom, yeilding no better results.

My .02.

 

[PCMAerial]

Greetings and welcome to the forum. Within your budget, you will be hard pressed to lift more than a GoPro, so plan on 2 to 3 times that to lift a DSLR or cinema camera at a minmum. Pro rigs usually support 2 person operarion, pilot and camera, and can top $10k in a hurry. Having said that, starting off within your budget, and developing the necessary skills to build, troubleshoot, and operate a multirotor AP platform is certainly atainable. DJI products have excellent design and build quality, and are the most user friendly for the new multirotor pilot.

If aerial videography is your goal, the fastest way to go from zero to editing will be a Phantom 2 with Zenmuse 2D gimbal, just slightly over your budget. It is easy to fly, durable, and the gimbal/GoPro combo will allow you to focus on your endpoint with minimal frustration,

Some will not like that statement and say that you are skipping over the necessary step of the build, but there are a bunch of other skills and processes that need to be developed along the way, and the Phantom will allow you to start bulding those while being productive, as you go through the learning process. There are also enough mods and accesories for the Phantom to help get you into soldering or just tinker, if that is your thing.

Case in point, I`ve watched my brother go this route, and truthfully I wish that I would have. After flying his Phantom for a year, he has just finished QAV400 and QAV250 builds. My first build was an F550, which I still have and love, but by the time that I load it with FPV gear, a gimbal, landing gear and battery, the flight time is much less than the Phantom, yeilding no better results.

My .02.

Thanks so much for the advice Chipwich!! Your opinion is definitely right along the route I am looking to go with. Although I am at a crossroads with the quad or hexacopter.

The phantom seems to be the best buy for me. And i have pretty much given up on flying a dslr. Mostly gopro or a lumix gx7. But let me know what your opinion on this...

Really considering the F550 ARF with Naza Lite GPS, devo 7, and a gimbal for gopro. Did you assemble yours from a kit? How difficult would you rate the assembly? Is this a bad idea?

Really leaning towards a hex for upgrade reasons in the future. But not counting out the phantom. Just cannot make up my mind. I just need to buy one and get this over with. Too much research. Lol.

Thanks guys for the valuable info.

 

[Stacky]

From a different angle, ignoring the machine you fly with one of the best bits of advice I could offer is to go through all this with someone experienced. Once you get whatever machine you end up with go flying with someone as often as possible, you will pick up a ton of knowledge faster if you start out working alongside someone who maybe has more experience.

 

[PCMAerial]

From a different angle, ignoring the machine you fly with one of the best bits of advice I could offer is to go through all this with someone experienced. Once you get whatever machine you end up with go flying with someone as often as possible, you will pick up a ton of knowledge faster if you start out working alongside someone who maybe has more experience.

Advice worth it's weight in gold. I'll be networking to those around my area, until then this website is my go to for any advice. Thanks alot!

 

[PCMAerial]

Down to clicking the "Buy" button..comparing these specs. Any thought?

-Storm Drone 6 (Naza Lite, 1 extra LiPo, Storm Gimbal, RTF) $932 Shipped - Helipal

-DJI F550 (Naza V2, 1 extra LiPo, Storm gimbal, assembly required) $850 shipped - UAV Products

-DJI F550 (Naza Lite, 1 extra LiPo, , Storm Gimbal, RTF assembled) $825 shipped - UAV Products

 

[Motopreserve]

Down to clicking the "Buy" button..comparing these specs. Any thought?

-Storm Drone 6 (Naza Lite, 1 extra LiPo, Storm Gimbal, RTF) $932 Shipped - Helipal

-DJI F550 (Naza V2, 1 extra LiPo, Storm gimbal, assembly required) $850 shipped - UAV Products

-DJI F550 (Naza Lite, 1 extra LiPo, , Storm Gimbal, RTF assembled) $825 shipped - UAV Products

This has all been great advice. For me, based on the list, the 2nd choice seems to be the ticket. While it's unlikely you will use much from these craft to carry over when/if you want to go to bigger cameras, the Naza V2 would probably be something that could translate to a larger hex (for larger camera eventually).

The storm drone comes with the Tx, but it's unlikely something you'd want after a bit of flying.

Have you thought about starting out with a f450? It can definitely carry a gopro, and would be cheaper (2 less of everything).

 

[PCMAerial]

This has all been great advice. For me, based on the list, the 2nd choice seems to be the ticket. While it's unlikely you will use much from these craft to carry over when/if you want to go to bigger cameras, the Naza V2 would probably be something that could translate to a larger hex (for larger camera eventually).

The storm drone comes with the Tx, but it's unlikely something you'd want after a bit of flying.

Have you thought about starting out with a f450? It can definitely carry a gopro, and would be cheaper (2 less of everything).

I agree, the information shared on this site has been a lifesaver!

The Naza V2 definitely has me leaning towards any build with that flight program. I love the price point on the f450, yet I have read a "Hex" is more reliable than a "quad" in any event of a prop going out. Would you consider this true?

If purchasing an ARF kit needing soldering/wiring assembly. Is this something realistic for a beginner? (I have worked on computers for years)

And far as cameras go, my strategy would be..

Start with GoPro to gain experience, and then upgrade gimbal to hold Panasonic gx7. This seems like a way to utilize my frame for a good bit of time, only upgrading the gimbal and props, battery, etc for better flight capacity. From what I've seen the camera weighs around the same a a Nex5/7 also with 1080p/60 recording capabilities. Literally just don't know what to purchase! A (good) BAD dilemma! Thanks for everyone's help

 

[Mikerodrig27]

Yes, the F550 with Naza-m V2 is a good choice. The benefits of a 550mm hex over the ?350mm? phantom quad will be stability. The phantom does perform well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30HDdocMyAk
This is with modifications.

Maybe you should check Ebay on the f550 for a good used unit. That way if you decide it's not for you, you can turn around and sell it for what you paid minus the shipping.

 

[Motopreserve]

Sorry, I know you're excited and ready to buy - but I conked out asleep early

To answer your question about difficulty putting one of these together - no, you will have no problem. If you have (or get) a good soldering iron and a few other tools, you will be able to disassemble and reassemble your craft fairly easily. The help around here and YouTube have it all laid out in living color! The most difficult part of this hobby IMO is research and patience. You're already experiencing the tough side of the patience, and some of the research too.

My suggestion about the f450 was based (in part) on my own research (my ultimate goal was aerial video) and my personal experience (thus far) in the hobby - realizing that even if I had a f550, I'd want something bigger that would handle a better gimbal (for a Sony Nex5n I had) and smooth flight. So I opted for a cheap, DIY first quad (I'm a tinkerer) to get the feel for the basics. Although bloated and overweight, I have already hoisted her with a $75 RTF GoPro gimbal and gotten a little footage. It's thrilling, regardless of the craft!

The quad offers fewer parts to buy, break and re-buy. It's fairly easy to handle, and mentally doesn't feel QUITE as bad when it crashes - which if you're new to MRs, is likely to happen. The 550 will be smoother I think, but the big question becomes:

Will I be able to upgrade the f550 to achieve my ultimate goals? In my research (and there was a ton of it!), I recognized that most of the pros around here were suggesting that you will not be "upgrading" your original craft, you'll be "updating" to a whole new set of parts/frame. So I took that to heart and kept it cheap for my first go-round, and have done exactly that. I have since built a higher quality FPV style quad and I am now waiting on parts for a Hex (Tarot fy680Pro) that will be with the goal of getting a GoPro, and eventually my Sony airborne.

If budget is a concern (when is it NOT?), then a quad makes sense for the beginner. If you think that you need better video right out of the gate, the 55o makes sense - and you just need to get really good at flying real quick

I know the decision making process can feel overwhelming - but rest assured that regardless of what you choose, it will be amazing. Simply amazing...

 

[chipwich]

Will I be able to upgrade the f550 to achieve my ultimate goals?

Yes and no. Carrying a bigger camera on the F550 is not simply a matter of upgrading the gimbal. You will need larger motors and props turning at a slower rpm, which means either getting arm extensions, like the Aerial Media Pros kit, or longer and stiffer arms like the new G10 arms from gerfpv. When you add up the props, motors, and arms, the upgrade total will be almost as much as you originally put in the F550. So that's why I'm saying given your budget, why not start with something that allows you have long flight time, learn all of the other processes, and capture great video with the least amount of hassles. Just finding decent landing gear for the F550 can be a challenge. I'm not saying that someone who already owns an F550 shouldn't upgrade, but rather if you are starting with a clean slate with carrying a DSLR or cinema camera, that the F550 is not a good way to go. The other thing that I like about the Phantom is that you can find a lot of cases for it, which makes transporting your entire AP/FPV rig really easy. Copter, batteries, transmitter, goggles, and antennas all fit in something about the size of an airline carry-on. Then when you have your cinema camera hauler built, you can bring the Phantom along as a backup. You will need it.

The one thing that I do like about the F550 is its ability to handle engine out situations. It can RTH on 5 engines no problem. But that is more NAZA than F550.

Finding someone local to fly and build with is great advice. There are regional sections on fpvlab which might help you locate one, or join a local RC club. Most of them will have active fpv or multirotor flyers.

 

[Motopreserve]

Carrying a bigger camera on the F550 is not simply a matter of upgrading the gimbal. You will need larger motors and props turning at a slower rpm, which means either getting arm extensions, like the Aerial Media Pros kit, or longer and stiffer arms like the new G10 arms from gerfpv. When you add up the props, motors, and arms, the upgrade total will be almost as much as you originally put in the F550

This is why I ultimately chose smaller/cheaper for my first MR, and accepted that by the time I got knee-deep in the hobby, my goals and thoughts on an "ideal" would have changed. I read a lot of posts by experienced pilots that stated I would eventually not simply upgrade the components, but in essence build a whole new craft with a more advanced feature-set and capability. That a "starter MR" is not often successfully changed into the more advanced MR you want later, when/if you get the bug.

The safety of the flying with a motor/prop down is appealing for sure. I think I just gave in to the idea that regardless, I was gonna crash in my learning period. And that's exactly what happened! maybe the hex could have saved me that initial anguish.

Im reviewing a Phantom2 with zenmuse H3-2D for this forum as we speak. It's my first foray into the world of DJI, and while I don't have a final conclusion yet, I can see there are pros and cons to this choice too. Not least is the self-contained nature of the product, getting in the air fairly quickly to learn to fly, and the healthy flight times.

The internal debate I had with myself about a more 'build it yourself' craft is that if you really think you're going to want to hoist a more "pro" rig at some point, you're going to need to be able to tweak and repair. Is it better to get that knowledge going right away, along with the flight skills? Everyone has to answer that for themselves I guess.

 

[SoCal Blur]

The one thing that I do like about the F550 is its ability to handle engine out situations. It can RTH on 5 engines no problem. But that is more NAZA than F550.

The safety of the flying with a motor/prop down is appealing for sure....

The redundancy of a Hexa or an Octo is critical if you're going to carry expensive cameras like DSLRs, Reds, etc. On one of my tests of my Octo with a Drift HD camera mounted underneath (no gimbal), I had an ESC go out 30 seconds into a flight. It was a very windy day with grass and debris hitting my Octo at times. Regardles, I was able to land it minus one motor. This was with a Multiwii FC.

 

[Motopreserve]

SoCal, your MR is in a whole different league from what we are talking about here!

Can an f550 lift a DSLR comfortably??? I guess I'm going on the assumption that the f550 with stock drive/suggested motor config is not up to the task. Perhaps I'm wrong?

 

[SoCal Blur]

SoCal, your MR is in a whole different league from what we are talking about here!

Can an f550 lift a DSLR comfortably??? I guess I'm going on the assumption that the f550 with stock drive/suggested motor config is not up to the task. Perhaps I'm wrong?

I know...just confirming that the reduncancy of 6 or more motors is important if the final intent is to carry DSLR cameras. In my opinion, the f550 platform is a tad small, stock. (I'm sure someone has done it though, although maybe not well) But with longer arms and the proper motors, and props it can be done.

 

[PCMAerial]

Well I see you guys are on it, thanks for all of this information!
I will be making a purchase today (I Hope)

So it definitely seems like the phantom and the f450/f550 are my contenders. Also I have given up the idea of flying my DSLR, instead looking at flying a pocket camera (gx7/gh3/4) after I learn with the GoPro. But so much reading on this site has me almost stuck on a hexacopter. (More stability than 4, less price overall than octo) So am I on the right path guys?

I know for a fact I will be using this setup day after day to learn with my gopro, and plan to try my pocket camera once I am confident in the air. I would love to have a rig where only the parts need an upgrade, instead of buying an entire new aircraft. I am a commercial filmmaker, and not to say I will use this commercially for some time. Yet In the back of my mind I know it will be getting a ton of use on those go-to aerial shots on certain jobs.

So it seems like...

Phantom Pros:
-Ease of use
-"RTF"
-Learning platform
-Price

Phantom Cons:
-Quad incase of prop outage
-Limited payload
-Limited flexibility


F550 Pros:
-Hex stability
-Flexible platform
-Higher payload

F550 Cons:
-Learning curve
-Assembly (Unless RTF)
-Price

This seem about right? Thanks everyone. Really have helped so much already

 

[Motopreserve]

If you are leaning heavily (no pun intended!) toward the f550/hex style, I would NOT put assembly in the cons category. I know this is semantics , but based on your goals, you really are going to need to figure out how to tech these things. And it's really not difficult. Also, no matter what you choose, there will be a learning curve. I bought a "toy" blade NanoQX to practice flying - and THAT had a learning curve!

Save some money for instant upgrades (I think you need landing gear for a gimbal) and get yourself a DIY f550 kit with all the parts needed for assembly. Once you get into it - you'll realize it's actually fun, and not a drag.

The phantom is great for learning and instant GoPro, but you're already talking about moving to a bigger camera (even 4:3 is bigger), so the cost of the Phantom will quickly be needed for any upgrades you will want for the craft that you'll use "professionally."

 

[PCMAerial]

If you are leaning heavily (no pun intended!) toward the f550/hex style, I would NOT put assembly in the cons category. I know this is semantics , but based on your goals, you really are going to need to figure out how to tech these things. And it's really not difficult. Also, no matter what you choose, there will be a learning curve. I bought a "toy" blade NanoQX to practice flying - and THAT had a learning curve!

Save some money for instant upgrades (I think you need landing gear for a gimbal) and get yourself a DIY f550 kit with all the parts needed for assembly. Once you get into it - you'll realize it's actually fun, and not a drag.

The phantom is great for learning and instant GoPro, but you're already talking about moving to a bigger camera (even 4:3 is bigger), so the cost of the Phantom will quickly be needed for any upgrades you will want for the craft that you'll use "professionally."

You are correct sir. Maybe I worded that wrong, I definitely wouldn't consider the assembly a con, shouldn't have put it in that category. I'm looking forward to working on my rig as I'm always upgrading and tinkering with my camera and computer equipment.

So it seems like soldering my own would be a good way to learn about how the rig works.

 

[Motopreserve]

You are correct sir. Maybe I worded that wrong, I definitely wouldn't consider the assembly a con, shouldn't have put it in that category. I'm looking forward to working on my rig as I'm always upgrading and tinkering with my camera and computer equipment.

So it seems like soldering my own would be a good way to learn about how the rig works.

Yep, when you mentioned working on computers, and that you were a cinematographer - I just HAD to point out that the skills required by assembly would not be taxing for you. Getting everything to work correctly, and talk to each other...that's a different story

 

[PCMAerial]

Yep, when you mentioned working on computers, and that you were a cinematographer - I just HAD to point out that the skills required by assembly would not be taxing for you. Getting everything to work correctly, and talk to each other...that's a different story

Sounds like it would save me a bit of cash as well. Maybe enough to find the gimbal needed. Wondering is there any gimbal out there that's moderately "universal"? Perhaps to fit a gopro up to a small pocket cam?

The soldering looks like a challenge because I have never done it before. But it seems like the internet has a vast amount of tutorials for this job, Just have to trust myself to do this lol.

Thanks man!!