Before I buy - your experienced input please.....?

[rdalemercer]

Hello - first, a short bit of introduction. I flew fixed wing for 10 years and switched to rotory wing about 12 years ago. I still don't do the upside-down flippity-flop stuff that I see at contests (regularly attend IRCHA in the USA), but rather enjoy a smooth flight style and enjoy keeping the "skid side down" so to speak.

Recently I've thought about venturing into multi-rotor and FPV as the next chapter in my personal flight school, but after reading the forums (this and others) I have not settled on an airframe - this is where (hopefully) you can lend your experience and knowledge. I don't want to spend a "wad" of money just to shelve it when it doesn't fly/work right or service is so poor that I give up on getting the needed spare parts (service/crash).

So, here goes what I think is a list of parts:
1. DJI-WK seems to be the best FC system - today. NAZA is out there but a bit pricey for me just getting my feet wet.

2. Air frame: this is where it starts to get muddy. I've looked at the following:
XA650
Droidworx CX4
TurboAce 720
Aerial Tech Quad
?? Question: pros/Cons? Service Experience?

3. I currently fly a Futaba MZ14 so the flight radio is not an issue

4. Motors?

5. ESC's?

6. Props and sizes?

7. Battery (size) and Charger that you use.

8. FPV system: (after it gets sorted and is flying with stability)
Cam: FPV-Fever F5202C 520 lines CCD Camera plus 2 axis camera mount
Down/Up link: FPV-FEVER TR5800D2 5.8G/500mW PNP system (or 200mW)?
Headset: Flytech FV-01 or FatShark? (5.8Ghz)
DVR: PV500eco

Sorry for the long list - but hopefully there are some of you that can lend me your personal preference & experience so I don't have to learn it by trial and error.

Thanks.
Dale.

 

[gadgetkeith]

hello dale

welcome to the site

you will find loads of info just browsing the threads

have a good look around before spending your hard earned cash

it can get very adictive like all hobbies

keith

 

[BorisS]

Hi Dale,

if 200$ around is the price range you are looking for in a FC than Naza will probably be your only choice. Openpilot CopterControl can also be interesting for you is even cheaper but i think its always a hassle to get your hands on one. Advantage of CC would be that you can extended it with a gps module later which you cant with the Naza. Flight experience wise i cant say because i never got arround installing my CC board, but my guess is as a beginner you will have more fun and less of a step learning curve with the naza.

Concerning frame i would just go with the DJI frame made for the naza. As a beginner frame its perfect and allows you to do multiple things. Also considering that its very cheap and you can always switch to something else later once you got addicted

All the other questions are easily answer if you make you decision in that direction.

Check out the legendery Droiders thread http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1377-Droiders-WMK-F460-frame-build

but he has the WKM installed but works just as good with the naza or actually designed for the naza i think

Boris

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Hi Dale! I would echo Boris's recommendation. Get a Naza kit, $460, all you need is a receiver, lipos and a charger. It flys very well and if you crash it is very strong. You can add FPV equipment to it later. The CX4 frame is great and really pricy, if you want to buy once and keep for a long time. But since you don't know if this is for you, I wouldn't waste the money.

 

[Droider]

Check out the legendery Droiders thread http://www.multirotorforums.com/show...60-frame-build

Bloomin Harold Boris.. legendary! I have only been called that in a previous life! But hey thanks for the compliments.

@rdalemercer.. The DJI 450 frame wheel is bomb proof for a first timer and is fully capable of expansion beyond the Naza.

Get the Naza kit its the best value for money out there... but once you jump in to this be ready for bigger hits on the wad.

The CX4 is a very nice frame and is high on my wish list but right now the 450 framewheel and GoPro2 is more than satisfying my needs.. I am using the WKM rather than the Naza because the Nasz was not avalible at the time I bought mine. I love the ability to just let go after a real tricky manover and the blighter just stops and waits for you to garther your composure and get everything back to gether. When you start loading your MR with value kit that is a price worth paying. I am in this for fast action video.. not slow cinematographic pans and rock steady footage.. 5 sec clips maybe 10 if I can pull it off but right now the WMK 450 frame and GP2 is ticking ALL my boxes.

I do have a WKM FC on a DW ADX3 standard which is also a great plaform for carrying a Nex5 or 2 GoPros for front and back filming.. and a ADX3HL for endurance with either the GP2 or the Nex5 as a stills platform and love um all but I was to rewind time and could jump in now my baby would be

WKM FC
450 framewheel
Hobbywing 12/18amp esc's
TorxPower or Axi motors
Graupner 10x5 elector props
Spectrum DX8TX
Spectrum AR8000 RX

If you want telemetry then the TM1100 is small and can be squeezed i the frame and will give you battery management, temps of one esc and altitude when its availible.. oh and if you have an iPhone telemetry straight to it...

On this forum we are here to help.. I have spent far to much in the last twelve months on the steepest learning curve I have EVER been on. There are others on here on similar paths.. Boris for one.. RTryder is another pioneer worth catching up on to..

Have fun.. dig deep and BTW welcome to MRF.. the best place to hang for impartial advice on the great and time sucking pastime of flying a brick!

Dave

 

[DennyR]

Hi Dave
I had a screen failure on my Futaba MZ14 for the second time in 4 years so whilst away for service I made a visit to my local model shop and came away with a nice little DX-8. Special deal with 2 rx. and telemetry. Nice to have battery level on screen at all times. But when I bind the Rx the Tx it asks me to close the throttle when I turn it on. Now that is a problem because I need it to be above 10% and also my mode switch needs to be outside of the center to hit the failsafe area.
So how did you get around that during binding?

 

[hugh4g]

Dave, I think you've put your finger on the button...thank you.
I've been watching for a few months, and have planned to talk to Geoff next week about something similar...one question though will the naza framewheel combination carry a camera gimbal and a camera that is a bit bigger than a gopro (nex5 with pancake for instance?)

Happy new year all

Hugh

 

[Droider]

Hi Dave
I had a screen failure on my Futaba MZ14 for the second time in 4 years so whilst away for service I made a visit to my local model shop and came away with a nice little DX-8. Special deal with 2 rx. and telemetry. Nice to have battery level on screen at all times. But when I bind the Rx the Tx it asks me to close the throttle when I turn it on. Now that is a problem because I need it to be above 10% and also my mode switch needs to be outside of the center to hit the failsafe area.
So how did you get around that during binding?

@Denny.. its in the warnings part of the TX setup.. you can turn it off as well as the flaps warning!

Dave

 

[DennyR]

Dave
Thanks for that, Still finding my way with it. Love it!

 

[Droider]

Dave, I think you've put your finger on the button...thank you.
I've been watching for a few months, and have planned to talk to Geoff next week about something similar...one question though will the naza framewheel combination carry a camera gimbal and a camera that is a bit bigger than a gopro (nex5 with pancake for instance?)

Happy new year all

Hugh

There are rumours of a camera gimble for the 450 BUT.. somewhere you need to draw the line on what you are asking your MR to do. I would not think about grafting a gimbale on the frame wheel.. I have other platform with them on. with a GP2 its bloody marvellous and thats where in reality I think the 450 FW and WKM should stop.. if you want a gimbal capable platform then I think you need to be moving up to something like the DW AD4.

Dave

 

[DennyR]

Eric Sun at DJI informs me that a dedicated mount will be available in a couple of months and worth waiting for!!!

My GPS has died following a hard nock. I think 300 usd is unreasonable for a replacement. Knowing what the components cost!

 

[Tomstoy2]

In the USA, check these guys out! John is a great guy to work with, too. They get my recommendation.

For a gimbal mounted quad, not too expensive, I am awaiting the RC Carbon small spy quad.

http://www.rchobbyhelicopter.com/store52/agora.cgi?product=Custom_UAV_Frames

 

[rdalemercer]

Awesome! Thanks (Keith, BorisS, Droider) for all of the feedback and comments. I'm still trying to decide which way to go so this forum is great!

Some questions come to mind after reading the posts.
1. The DJI Flame Wheel is a 450. Can it carry the weight of the GoPro HD and still be stable & manueverable? I remember when I was starting out with Heli's that the smaller ships were harder to keep stable in windy conditions (which the NAZA / WooKom are supposed to help eliminate)
.2. I also wonder about added demand on the motor/ESC combo for the 450 size (could they fail in flight?)
3. For radio's, I have the MZ14 and a DX7 (still in the box), but was planning to use the Futaba since I can add head tracking later when (if) I go into FVP (my ulimate goal).
4. I like the "looks" of the CX4 the best, but it is pricey - which is why I was also looking at the XA650 and the TurboAce720. I wasn't wanting to spend money to have to spend it again on another ship if I can buy it right the first time and add the "shiney bits" as I need / want to (just like helicopters, I can tell that this can get expensive -- and quickly).
5. I don't think (from what I've read) that the NAZA is upgradedable to add the GPS tracking. I'm not sure that it's important starting out, but (and I'm not sure that this analogy works) but I wish that I had started out with a heading lock gyro when I was learning to fly heli's as I think that it would have saved me some repair money.

If I can hang a GoPro underneath (or on top) and eventually add the FPV-Fever F5202C 520 lines CCD Camera, I can record with the GoPro and "see" where I'm going and what its recording with the FPV...but I digress.

The real issue I think is the payload of the 450 vs the 650 and the motor/ESC's ability to handle the added power required to keep it in the air even with rock steady flight characteristics.

I'm glad that I found this forum. I hope you guys don't mind the "elementary" questions.

 

[rdalemercer]

Is the payload just a calculated factor of weight vs lifting capability? So, adding "bigger" motors (with properly sized props and ESC's *could* generate more carrying capacity?

Th CX-4 is only rated at 400grams vs the XA650 at almost double.

What are your thoughts?

 

[rdalemercer]

but I was to rewind time and could jump in now my baby would be

WKM FC
450 framewheel
Hobbywing 12/18amp esc's
TorxPower or Axi motors
Graupner 10x5 elector props
Spectrum DX8TX
Spectrum AR8000 RX

On this forum we are here to help.. I have spent far to much in the last twelve months on the steepest learning curve I have EVER been on. There are others on here on similar paths.. Boris for one.. RTryder is another pioneer worth catching up on to..

Have fun.. dig deep and BTW welcome to MRF.. the best place to hang for impartial advice on the great and time sucking pastime of flying a brick!

Dave

Hi Dave (Droider):
I've researched some of the above and found the following combination of bits and bobs (mostly) at CNChelicopter here in the USA. I also watched your build video - which answered some of my questions about the FlameWheel being able to handle to GoPro.

Here's what I've pieced together:

a. DJI NAZA autopilot system FlameWheel450 F450 frame kit 1xF450 frame kit ( need simple assemble) 1x Naza Flight controller 4x DJI 2215 Brushless motor（905rpm/V） 4x DJI Propellers（10x4.5） 4x DJI 30A Brushless ESC b. A.KE 5850mAh/11.1V/15C lipoly battery c. GoPro Naked d.FPV system is: FlyTech Goggles (5.8G up/down link) 520 lines CCD Camera e. Flight Radio - I am planning to use my Futaba MZ14 All in cost is ~$1700 My only concern is for the motor and ESC's - if they are good enough quality. Based on your recommendation, I was going to mount the Graupner 10 x 5 (2 x CW, 2 x CCW) props. I'd like to get your input?

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[rdalemercer]

On this forum we are here to help.. I have spent far to much in the last twelve months on the steepest learning curve I have EVER been on. There are others on here on similar paths.. Boris for one.. RTryder is another pioneer worth catching up on to..

Have fun.. dig deep and BTW welcome to MRF.. the best place to hang for impartial advice on the great and time sucking pastime of flying a brick!

Dave

That's exactly what I need - HELP?
I guess I thought my questions were logical (OK, based on my logic) and - not wanting to spend unnecessay funds if not needed - were based on trying maximize my spend based on having a stable platform - good in wind, can carry a Go Pro and can be used for FPV.

450? 650? <-- is bigger *more stable* or is stability based on the FC system?
NAZA? WK? <-- WK has GPS that NAZA doesn't but its $200 vs $1100....is it worth the extra cost *now* vs as a later (next ship) upgrade?
Motor/ESC combination? What works well and stays cool with the added weight of the Go Pro and needed weight of the batteries?

The DJI Flamewheel seems to be "low to the ground" making it necessary to front/top mount the Go Pro. Do the props get in the field of view of the wide angle Go Pro?

I'm not new to flying, but I've never flown a MR platform, so the experience that I have doesn't necessarily transate directly.

I still can use some help.

 

[Droider]

Just off to work.. will get back to you asap

dave

 

[plingboot]

as mentioned elsewhere, i've bought shiploads of kit over the last 15 months, but knowing what i do now i'd buy the wkm and (two) flamewheel(s), either torxpower 800kv or tiger 'pancake' motors (which look great and are super quiet), hobbywing 30A sec's and graupner 10 x 5 props.

if you want fpv too then the immersionRC kit is great. I bought the ezOSD which includes current sensor and gps (nothing to do with position hold), the immersionRC long range VTx an the fatshark 5v camera. I'm using fatshark dominator goggles with the built-in 5.8ghz Rx and blue beam antennas.

The immersionRC kit is neat, compact and plugs together easily - test so far indicate that it works well too.

I'll post pics later, but the wkm fits inside the frame, i've used the top plate from the second flame wheel (with some M2.5 standoffs) to sandwich the fpv components with the battery sitting on top. everything is neat and protected from damage as best it can be.

Everything is powered by the one flight pack and the OSD shows total capacity, used amount direction to home, hight from home, distance from home etc etc.

The goPro sits on the front tab (drilled a hole for it) using the goPro tripod mount.

I bought a naza too at christmas - it's great and will probably end up being the fpv mule (long term), but the added functionality of position hold with the WKM make it a no brainer for me - definitely worth the extra cost now.

If you're new to this, i'd suggest that a similar set-up would be a good balance between having enough gear to do a number of things to a reasonable level in a robust package and cost.

in an ideal world i'd like a cinestar, AV130 and picloc, but my flying is still on a learning curve and one prang and it's all knackered - underslung cameras might give the best images, but they are exposed and prone to catastrophic damage. my current set-up might not give cinematic image quality, but it's still pretty good for what i want to do and will probably be fine for a good while yet.

This is a dynamic time for multi rotors, lots of new and developing technologies for autopilots, AP and FPV - stuff will change quickly and new players will probably appear too so nothing is set in stone. That said IMHO the trend for big expensive carbon frames and gimbals is great for pro AP outfits, but compact robust frames might be having their moment for folks on a budget.

 

[Droider]

Got to agree there with PB.. If you can push the boat out go for the WKM over the Naza but if you just want to give it a go then the Naza complete framewheel kit takes some beating

Dave

 

[rdalemercer]

Thanks Plingboot.
The NAZA seems the way to go at first. I've also looked at ImmersionRC for a FPV set.

Is the Flamewheel (with the motor / ESC that you've suggested) enough to carry a GoPro without a negative impact on the flight times / stability? I'm guessing that stabilization is the job of the NAZA, but the added weight should have an impact on flight times?

How do you connect the GoPro to the video downlink for FPV?

I appreciate the feedback and experience with the Flamewheel. It is the least expensive of all of the platforms that I have looked at so far.

I would enjoy seing pictures of your setup to give me a better idea of how you've configured your flamwheel.

Thank you!
Dale.