F550 Starting Motor Issues - Naza or Not??

[PCMAerial]

Yet another n00b thread here. Attempting to NOT clog as many other threads as possible. Troubleshooting this all day before consulting these forums, but no luck.

So I've FINALLY gotten my calibration going. Motor test makes each motor spin very quickly. But I can't get anything to start up or move when I'm not in the Naza v2 assistant software. Anyone know what would cause this?

When I plug in my LiPo I get the startup LED's and beeps. And then this is what my LED looks like:

GPS Mode = Green, Green Flashing
Atti Mode = Yellow, Yellow Flashing
Manual = No LED at all

I'm consulting the Naza software manual, and the "Basic Setup for FrSky Taranis" thread on here. It seems like everything is about there. But I can't get over this final step of actually powering up the aircraft :upset:

Specs:
F550
Naza v2
2212 Motors
E300 ESC's
FrSky Taranis
X8R Receiver

 

[TTAP-Produtions]

Hi PCMAerial

I've used Naza before but it's been a while. They seem to be a little tricky at times.

The first thing that comes to mind is the travel limit of the 4 control channels. All 4 have to be at 100% at the end points. You can use a throttle curve around center and you can use expo on the other 3 channels so it won't be too sensitive to control and still have your gains high enough but the end points have to be 100%.
Judging from the colors of your LED it sounds like a failed the field calibration of the controller (or the calibration hasn't been done yet) and/or less than 100% on the end points. The software will show if your sticks center properly but it won't show if they make it all the way to 100% travel.
If the controller doesn't sense that the sticks are all the way in the corners by the end point being less than 100%, it won't let you start the motors but it will let you test the motors while hooked up to the software in your computer. That's just to make sure they turn in the correct direction and that you have the correct prop (CW or CCW). It's also to make sure the controller is sending the PWM signal to the correct motor.
Another cause could be that the firmware may need to be re-loaded or the field calibration may need to be performed again.
I assume you were calibrating everything including the joysticks while hooked to your computer (I'll assume you did the joystick calibration and it passed). The calibration I'm referring to is after gaining 6 or more satellites, then enter it into the field calibration mode, rotate the MR 360 degrees till the light changes color, then point the nose down toward the ground with the GPS antenna pointed away from you, then rotate it 360 degrees again. If it give you a red light after the nose down portion, it means the calibration has failed.
If it passed, you need to disconnect the control battery and re-initialize it again before will let you fly (I think I'm right about that part, I never tried it without rebooting the controller after a field calibration).
The MR also needs to be close to level during initialization and left completely still until it's complete.
The next issue may be that the magnetic field is too strong and confusing the controller. I've seen my WKM acquire 6 satellites but found out that the high magnetic field nearby was causing it to flash green and yellow alternately. I use an electronic compass that also shows what the magnetic strength is in the area. Too much and it could cause the MR to drop a satellite or two in-flight and not be able to hold in GPS. The IMU will still work in ATTI mode, just not GPS. The ideal reading for magnetic strength is 49ut.

I hope this helps!!

 

[STI-REX]

Assuming that it is all setup correctly in the radio and the calibration has been done both in the Assistant and the compass calibration dance

Have you armed the system with the CSC ( control stick command ) as in both sticks to bottom center of the controller

This is done once the GPS has indicated it has a lock on the home position ( all green led flashes )

 

[Motopreserve]

These guys seem to have you covered. I would just add that the taranis should already be at -100 and +100 default on the end points (limit in taranis). So you should be all set on that front.

As mentioned, it seems you have to do the "field calibration" before arming. The 360 dance to get the MR acclimated and aligned.

Im assuming that the Naza assistant allows you to see the stick movements in some way (like a bar graph)??? Just double check that your sticks are all doing what they should (throttle stick up is increasing throttle, yaw stick left is showing yaw left etc). I believe the default in taranis should be correct for that too - but just make sure.

Also, unrelated to the arming, you checked your motor direction was correct while in assistant?

 

[PCMAerial]

Hi PCMAerial

I've used Naza before but it's been a while. They seem to be a little tricky at times.

The first thing that comes to mind is the travel limit of the 4 control channels. All 4 have to be at 100% at the end points. You can use a throttle curve around center and you can use expo on the other 3 channels so it won't be too sensitive to control and still have your gains high enough but the end points have to be 100%.
Judging from the colors of your LED it sounds like a failed the field calibration of the controller (or the calibration hasn't been done yet) and/or less than 100% on the end points. The software will show if your sticks center properly but it won't show if they make it all the way to 100% travel.
If the controller doesn't sense that the sticks are all the way in the corners by the end point being less than 100%, it won't let you start the motors but it will let you test the motors while hooked up to the software in your computer. That's just to make sure they turn in the correct direction and that you have the correct prop (CW or CCW). It's also to make sure the controller is sending the PWM signal to the correct motor.
Another cause could be that the firmware may need to be re-loaded or the field calibration may need to be performed again.
I assume you were calibrating everything including the joysticks while hooked to your computer (I'll assume you did the joystick calibration and it passed). The calibration I'm referring to is after gaining 6 or more satellites, then enter it into the field calibration mode, rotate the MR 360 degrees till the light changes color, then point the nose down toward the ground with the GPS antenna pointed away from you, then rotate it 360 degrees again. If it give you a red light after the nose down portion, it means the calibration has failed.
If it passed, you need to disconnect the control battery and re-initialize it again before will let you fly (I think I'm right about that part, I never tried it without rebooting the controller after a field calibration).
The MR also needs to be close to level during initialization and left completely still until it's complete.
The next issue may be that the magnetic field is too strong and confusing the controller. I've seen my WKM acquire 6 satellites but found out that the high magnetic field nearby was causing it to flash green and yellow alternately. I use an electronic compass that also shows what the magnetic strength is in the area. Too much and it could cause the MR to drop a satellite or two in-flight and not be able to hold in GPS. The IMU will still work in ATTI mode, just not GPS. The ideal reading for magnetic strength is 49ut.

I hope this helps!!

Great information here sir, thank you! Let me try and get it all tackled:

-How exactly do I change my end points, via the Naza assistant or my Tx?

-I made it to the calibtration phase with rotating my rig horizontally 360, and vertically 360 and things seemed to work. But I want to try it again now to be sure. I haven't attempted another startup since yesterday after so many failed attempts. Going to recalibrate via Naza Assistant from square 1.

Something tells me I've done something wrong (or not done something) with the setup of my TX (FrSky Taranis & X8R). I setup my tx/rx in verbatim to this thread:
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...s-X8R-and-Naza-M-V2&highlight=Taranis+Naza+V2

Going to run through everything here like a checklist and see if anything works. Motors spin correctly in the Naza test, just will not arm when I want to fire it up (no props)

Thanks so much for the info, greatly appreciated!

 

[PCMAerial]

Assuming that it is all setup correctly in the radio and the calibration has been done both in the Assistant and the compass calibration dance

Have you armed the system with the CSC ( control stick command ) as in both sticks to bottom center of the controller

This is done once the GPS has indicated it has a lock on the home position ( all green led flashes )

If you're referring to the picture of the sticks on the Naza menu, yes I have tried both of these combinations with no luck at all. I'm just wondering if I have something setup wrong on my Tx and it doesn't recognize my sticks going that far down. Not sure if that makes sense. But my rig seems to be all connected, rx bound to tx. Motors tested. Don't know how to turn this thing "ON" lol!! Thanks for the info also

 

[PCMAerial]

These guys seem to have you covered. I would just add that the taranis should already be at -100 and +100 default on the end points (limit in taranis). So you should be all set on that front.

As mentioned, it seems you have to do the "field calibration" before arming. The 360 dance to get the MR acclimated and aligned.

Im assuming that the Naza assistant allows you to see the stick movements in some way (like a bar graph)??? Just double check that your sticks are all doing what they should (throttle stick up is increasing throttle, yaw stick left is showing yaw left etc). I believe the default in taranis should be correct for that too - but just make sure.

Also, unrelated to the arming, you checked your motor direction was correct while in assistant?

Motor direction is correct! Getting some movement when I click the test button for each motor. In the Naza assistant I'm seeing full range of motion from my sticks. Wondering if I changed my defaults when I setup my TX?

After following the "Basic Setup for FrSky" thread:

"go to the servos menu on the Tx (page 7/13) and scroll down to CH7. Select the min value field which is set to -100 and set it to -64 (minus 64). Similarly, select the max value field and change from 100 to 64 (positive 64). Finally select the PPM center field and change the value to 1530"

Is this the same value you are referring to Scott? Sorry if I still don't have all of my terminology correct

 

[Motopreserve]

Motor direction is correct! Getting some movement when I click the test button for each motor. In the Naza assistant I'm seeing full range of motion from my sticks. Wondering if I changed my defaults when I setup my TX?

After following the "Basic Setup for FrSky" thread:

"go to the servos menu on the Tx (page 7/13) and scroll down to CH7. Select the min value field which is set to -100 and set it to -64 (minus 64). Similarly, select the max value field and change from 100 to 64 (positive 64). Finally select the PPM center field and change the value to 1530"

Is this the same value you are referring to Scott? Sorry if I still don't have all of my terminology correct

That is the setting I'm referring to - but I think that he's only talking about doing that for channel 7. The other channels should be set to -100 and +100 with the center at 1500. That will give you the full throw. That can be done very easily in the companion software, or from within the computer.

The other thing to check is the trims on the Tx. Do you know where they are? If not, they are the small switches next to each stick. In the home page of the taranis you can see if they are all centered by the little squares on the lines that run along the sides and bottom. Make sure they are centered and not moved from the center positions.

 

[PCMAerial]

That is the setting I'm referring to - but I think that he's only talking about doing that for channel 7. The other channels should be set to -100 and +100 with the center at 1500. That will give you the full throw. That can be done very easily in the companion software, or from within the computer.

The other thing to check is the trims on the Tx. Do you know where they are? If not, they are the small switches next to each stick. In the home page of the taranis you can see if they are all centered by the little squares on the lines that run along the sides and bottom. Make sure they are centered and not moved from the center positions.

All seems good. All other channels are -100 and 100. Except 7 at -64 and 64. Channel 6 is INV.

I successfully calibrated by rotating the rig horizontal and vertical. Trims are all in the center. I'm getting a (Green, Green) LED in GPS/Atti mode which I read indicates (GPS , Medium Signal)

Now I'm moving my sticks in every combination on the Naza manual and nothing is starting. I've got to be doing SOMETHING wrong here lol

 

[Motopreserve]

Did you try taking the throttle trim down a bit to see if it will engage that way? Make sure you put it back after you try it.

Also, did you calibrate the sticks in the taranis?

 

[PCMAerial]

Houston we have progress!!!! After moving my sticks all over, I found out LEFT STICK down and left, right stick right and up. Armed my motors!!!! Talk about a good feeling after all. So now I need to figure out all of the settings to actually fly this thing. One step closer thanks to this forum hands down

 

[Motopreserve]

Houston we have progress!!!! After moving my sticks all over, I found out LEFT STICK down and left, right stick right and up. Armed my motors!!!! Talk about a good feeling after all. So now I need to figure out all of the settings to actually fly this thing. One step closer thanks to this forum hands down

Is that one of the movements described in the Naza manual???? Or was the pitch reversed?

 

[PCMAerial]

Is that one of the movements described in the Naza manual???? Or was the pitch reversed?

Hmm..good point. No it wasn't one in the manual. The only command movement that is in "REV" on Naza is the "E" stick Ele I'm assuming. Should I switch this to "Normal" how all of my other sticks are set

 

[Motopreserve]

Yes. Do it now!

was as that part of the how-to you linked? I think all sticks in the taranis can be normal (not reversed or inverted). That's your problem right there.

 

[PCMAerial]

Yes. Do it now!

was as that part of the how-to you linked? I think all sticks in the taranis can be normal (not reversed or inverted). That's your problem right there.

Right on point. In a tutorial video I watched it was set to Rev so I followed suit. Sometimes TOO much research can lead to errors lol, I'm glad I have the help of this site. I'm sure these items are simple. but I don't want to risk anything wrong in this setup. So I appreciate the help and patience! Finally arming my motors every time. Ready to get some props on in the AM and get things moving if it's a nice day to fly. Ordered some backup props but they came with no caps to screw them on. So I'm going to fly the f550 with NO gimbal/camera with the stock props to atleast see if I can hover in the next few days. And in the meantime find some caps to get my new props on.

Really appreciate the insight!!

 

[Motopreserve]

I'm sure these items are simple. but I don't want to risk anything wrong in this setup.

These things are not at all simple, so make sure you take your time and really do the research (and then ask here to confirm) and practice it requires, or it will end in tears (or worse).

Congrats on getting it to arm up. Many times it's one small thing we've overlooked that can hold us up for hours. You just need to know when to walk away for a break.

Make sure you get a pre-flight checklist together. Check all the basics (props tight, bolts tight, Tx switches in the correct positions. Etc). You're launching something dangerous into the air, you want it to come back down safely and in one piece.

 

[PCMAerial]

These things are not at all simple, so make sure you take your time and really do the research (and then ask here to confirm) and practice it requires, or it will end in tears (or worse).

Congrats on getting it to arm up. Many times it's one small thing we've overlooked that can hold us up for hours. You just need to know when to walk away for a break.

Make sure you get a pre-flight checklist together. Check all the basics (props tight, bolts tight, Tx switches in the correct positions. Etc). You're launching something dangerous into the air, you want it to come back down safely and in one piece.

Of course nothing is simple with this craft, I'd never think that. Much more appreciative of these rigs after all the time and effort people put into them out here. But I meant this must be something most people figure out without all the forum posts. I hope?? I'm just a super n00b haha!!

Thanks alot for the help though. I definitely needed an overnight break. Took the craft today and got it in the air out in the driveway, woo!! Have to admit I wasn't comfortable YET going over 5-6ft in the air, just have to get over this hump. And get it charged

I've got a 3300mAh 4s (14.8v) LiPo. Is there an easy way to tell when it's fully charged or almost out of charge, or will the Accucell 6 beep automatically when charged? I'm charging completely supervised and not leaving the room until I have the battery setup correct. Trying to figure out how to get this battery voltage indicator setup.

 

[Motopreserve]

Charge it with the balance plug also connected on the side of the accucel itself. When you choose a charging type (under Lipo) there is the option for "balance charge" which will finish when it senses the 4 cells are all charged equally and balanced.

It will shut itself off when it's done and beep annoyingly. You still want to be near it while it's charging. There are a couple videos on YouTube that walk you through the accucel procedures/features. You can also download the manual from hobby king site.

Youre going to need to keep an eye on the clock for battery discharge. Since you only have a 3300mah, set the taranis timer to something like 7 minutes. You'll need a cheap lipo cell checker to read where it's at. There are plenty of how-tos to determine you flight time based on how many mah you have to put back in the battery after flight.

Its probably good that you're keeping it mellow in the driveway. Get yourself charged up and get to a field (at least some open room with grass). This makes it much easier to get over the hump. Also realize that when lifting off, I think the Naza wants a jump of the throttle stick to about 50% to take off. That takes a bit of balls - but it helps you get past the ground effect.

 

[PCMAerial]

Charge it with the balance plug also connected on the side of the accucel itself. When you choose a charging type (under Lipo) there is the option for "balance charge" which will finish when it senses the 4 cells are all charged equally and balanced.

It will shut itself off when it's done and beep annoyingly. You still want to be near it while it's charging. There are a couple videos on YouTube that walk you through the accucel procedures/features. You can also download the manual from hobby king site.

Youre going to need to keep an eye on the clock for battery discharge. Since you only have a 3300mah, set the taranis timer to something like 7 minutes. You'll need a cheap lipo cell checker to read where it's at. There are plenty of how-tos to determine you flight time based on how many mah you have to put back in the battery after flight.

Its probably good that you're keeping it mellow in the driveway. Get yourself charged up and get to a field (at least some open room with grass). This makes it much easier to get over the hump. Also realize that when lifting off, I think the Naza wants a jump of the throttle stick to about 50% to take off. That takes a bit of balls - but it helps you get past the ground effect.

Awesome! I have it plugged in now. Been watching a ton of tutorials. So I'll need an additional component to actually have something alarm me/land my rig when battery is low?

Also My charger is already showing 15.50v in Balance charge mode, but I just flew my rig around 7mins until the red LED indicating battery power started going off. My battery is only 14.8v does this make any difference?

I'm charging on balance mode Li4s 3.3A 14.8v. Just flew and I'm reading 15.50v as soon as I plugged it in to charge

 

[Motopreserve]

You need to go read the battery info thread that Bart started in the beginner section. These things are NOT to be trifled with.

the charge should end at 16.8. Batteries/Cells will charge to 4.2 at max. So 4cell will be 4*4.2 =16.8.