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John Doecliff
Member
Eh.. I liked the old multirotors forum better but the only real thing that changed is the look of the page. I'm slowly getting used to the new look and don't have anything negative to say. I will say the moderators seem fine and things are starting to pick up. I like hanging out here and learning and helping when I can. It can get a little boring here sometimes but boring is way better than drama and flame wars. I do like the daily email that lists the most popular topics. Even though this isn't as big as RC Groups its still has a lot of info and its hard to keep up with all of it so I find myself staying in a few areas only. I have definitely benefited knowledge wise from being a member here. Its definitely not broke so don't start changing things just for the sake of changing them. If participation picked up a little it would be nice. I mainly use a desktop and hang out here when I'm at work and the plant is running smoothly. I only use my phone to look at the site on rare occasions.
Old Man
Active Member
I like the layout of the old forum a little better, partly because the subjects were broken out a little better. I haven't seen this site listed in Tapatalk yet, although it may be there. I do access sites from my phone so being able to go into one direct without opening another web browser is kind of nice. I do like the forum and it's management though, especially the work that is going into posting information in sticky type threads for user to easily access.
Rustproofcorn
Member
Site is fine. Needs more active members. I pretty much been talking to myself in my own thread.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
violetwolf
Member
Yes, I think the look is fine myself.
One thing that I think could help build traffic is to condense the forums a little so that the limited traffic isn't so spread out. For instance there's no real need to have a separate forum for Flight Controllers etc. All the "electronics" related topics could be under one "Electronics" forum. This would make that topic a little livelier and engaging at this point while traffic is low.
I guess what I'm saying is that if things weren't so spread out it would look busier.
One thing that I think could help build traffic is to condense the forums a little so that the limited traffic isn't so spread out. For instance there's no real need to have a separate forum for Flight Controllers etc. All the "electronics" related topics could be under one "Electronics" forum. This would make that topic a little livelier and engaging at this point while traffic is low.
I guess what I'm saying is that if things weren't so spread out it would look busier.
violetwolf
Member
Other than that I'm enjoying the place.
moonpie57108
Member
Traffic would be my only complaint, not sure how it was before but it is noticeable some days that this place is dead. I pretty much use this site exclusively, so not sure how that compares to the other big ones out there on the MR topics. I might reply to a post in the morning and that afternoon/evening it might still be the most recent post on the forums. Not sure what you can do about it though, you proved with the Drone Giveaway thread people are here they just may be aren't posting.
Happy with how everything works though.
Happy with how everything works though.
Av8Chuck
Member
Not sure if this is a continuation from the earlier debate?
I don't think the layout, colors or even how it's organized has much effect on attendance.
When Bart started this forum he was active on a lot of other forums and recognized that there was considerable frustration amongst a growing population of "commercial" drone operators. Those aspiring commercial operators needed a place to hang out and exchange ideas and MRF was initially the place to do that.
Unfortunately as this became the "cool" forum to hang out in, more and more people who just wanted to buy a Phantom and call themselves a "professional" started to dominate the discussion. This really changed the culture of the forum.
I don't think you can simply have a section for professionals and another for hobbyists to grow the attendance. The hobbyists will just return to RC groups and the professionals will find other like minded people elsewhere.
I have no idea what the attendance of this forum is now, but I'm guessing from the little dialog seems to be going on it must be way down. Also not sure how much, if any resources your willing to spend changing that situation.
Although there were things Thay Bart and I didn't see eye to eye on, I really miss the old MRF.
I don't think the layout, colors or even how it's organized has much effect on attendance.
When Bart started this forum he was active on a lot of other forums and recognized that there was considerable frustration amongst a growing population of "commercial" drone operators. Those aspiring commercial operators needed a place to hang out and exchange ideas and MRF was initially the place to do that.
Unfortunately as this became the "cool" forum to hang out in, more and more people who just wanted to buy a Phantom and call themselves a "professional" started to dominate the discussion. This really changed the culture of the forum.
I don't think you can simply have a section for professionals and another for hobbyists to grow the attendance. The hobbyists will just return to RC groups and the professionals will find other like minded people elsewhere.
I have no idea what the attendance of this forum is now, but I'm guessing from the little dialog seems to be going on it must be way down. Also not sure how much, if any resources your willing to spend changing that situation.
Although there were things Thay Bart and I didn't see eye to eye on, I really miss the old MRF.
vinito
Member
to me, it all comes down to traffic.
Maybe it's just my own preference, but I MUCH prefer a lively forum to a database wearing a forum "mask". It almost doesn't matter if there are tons of "nothing" posts, but if there's nothing to read, then nobody show up to read it. I recently re-added the bookmark after taking a long time away, but I'm pretty close to going away again. There's simply no content.
I've made three or so posts this round. They were weeks ago and the response is tumbleweeds & crickets. Even a flaming comlaint response would be better than that.
I have no idea what would increase membership and traffic other than the fact that having over 50 headings when the whole forum gets maybe five new posts per week just seems very short-sighted or at least misinformed. With five posts per week, one or maybe two headings TOTAL would make much more sense. I know there is the "most recent" list at the top which kind of simulates this, but for some reason I just can't learn to warm up to it overall. It's simply spread too thin.
Too bad too. RC groups has the same approach with pages and pages of headings & sub-headings. This is just hard to see what's going on at all. Not to mention that seems like over half of the post there are "here's what I've got for sale" posts from some commercial source. That would be handy if you just wanted to be edified as to what's new & coming out. Maybe it's just me, but I think a forum should be "real people" writing questions, answers, what's on their mind and what they are working on. The more, the better. RC groups is large I guess, but not much real-time interesting stuff there for me to find. I guess maybe it would be OK for searching old content to read. Just me again, but that seems to miss half the mark.
As it is though, I have yet to see an RC forum (I'm into multirotors more than other stuff right now) that seems lively enough to warrant checking out regularly. This seems odd - there are a LOT of people interested in the field at large but the forums I've seen don't have much to offer content-wise. Seems like something ripe for the plucking if one could figure out how to reach the fruit.
Maybe it's just my own preference, but I MUCH prefer a lively forum to a database wearing a forum "mask". It almost doesn't matter if there are tons of "nothing" posts, but if there's nothing to read, then nobody show up to read it. I recently re-added the bookmark after taking a long time away, but I'm pretty close to going away again. There's simply no content.
I've made three or so posts this round. They were weeks ago and the response is tumbleweeds & crickets. Even a flaming comlaint response would be better than that.
I have no idea what would increase membership and traffic other than the fact that having over 50 headings when the whole forum gets maybe five new posts per week just seems very short-sighted or at least misinformed. With five posts per week, one or maybe two headings TOTAL would make much more sense. I know there is the "most recent" list at the top which kind of simulates this, but for some reason I just can't learn to warm up to it overall. It's simply spread too thin.
Too bad too. RC groups has the same approach with pages and pages of headings & sub-headings. This is just hard to see what's going on at all. Not to mention that seems like over half of the post there are "here's what I've got for sale" posts from some commercial source. That would be handy if you just wanted to be edified as to what's new & coming out. Maybe it's just me, but I think a forum should be "real people" writing questions, answers, what's on their mind and what they are working on. The more, the better. RC groups is large I guess, but not much real-time interesting stuff there for me to find. I guess maybe it would be OK for searching old content to read. Just me again, but that seems to miss half the mark.
As it is though, I have yet to see an RC forum (I'm into multirotors more than other stuff right now) that seems lively enough to warrant checking out regularly. This seems odd - there are a LOT of people interested in the field at large but the forums I've seen don't have much to offer content-wise. Seems like something ripe for the plucking if one could figure out how to reach the fruit.
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Av8Chuck
Member
I've shared this opinion before, but I think the "why" a forum exists is way more important than the "how."
I do think I know what it will take to make this forum more relevant. But it's going to take resources and redefining the customer. Not sure if the management of this site would be interested.
Not sure what roll DroneVibes wants to play in the commercial drone market.
I do think I know what it will take to make this forum more relevant. But it's going to take resources and redefining the customer. Not sure if the management of this site would be interested.
Not sure what roll DroneVibes wants to play in the commercial drone market.
violetwolf
Member
BINGO! I've been saying this over and over and over.... Two headings: Professional and Hobbyist. (And NO sub-topics). Then expand that as traffic warrants.
I've been trying to stick around, but the endless empty classrooms and hallways make it impossible to find anyone.
It seems like even the mods have given up
Hexacrafter
Manufacturer
I come & check here regularly, but the vast majority of our clients (Pro Level users/ Part 107 pilots) have moved to Facebook Closed Groups that limit conversations to group related topics. I believe the "Group" that started the old MRF with Bart are now focused on building businesses based on the hobby. Most now do not have the time to spend resources on hobby forums. I think what has changed is the industry itself..... 5-6 years ago everyone had to "Build" a "Multicopter" to enter the hobby.... Now everyone just goes & buys a "Drone" that is ready to fly. This shift has had a VERY dramatic effect on this industry & the Forum.... I have many friends and peers that have not weathered the storm and left the hobby or industry and others that have flourished in the new market.
So... advice to the operators of this forum....
Without many seasoned veterans regularly on this forum, I suggest that the moderators/ owners need to start filling the void with interesting "facts" and not so much opinion.... Some side by side testing, some facts to back-up the opinion.... I have personally stopped responding to some threads as the "opinions" are biased and in some cases completely the opposite of actual tested facts. Like in many forums, one persons opinion is slowly morphed into believed "Fact" as it has been posted so many times by believers without testing or fact.
With the massive flood of new RTF "drones" and individuals new to the market... this forum needs to make a decision on where to focus this forum....
I you want to try and draw back some of the pro users, there needs to be more "pro" content.... Part 107 Discussions, Side by Side motor tests, side by side aircraft tests, articles on new & existing manufacturers and their products, interviews with industry partners...
Finally.... and this is pure opinion.....
I hate the "Drone" label.... It makes me think of a kid in the backyard with a plastic quadcopter....
Small UAS/ sUAS/ Multicopter/ Aerial Video Platform/ Aerial Photography/ Videography..... something that sounds a bit more professional.
Sorry for the rant.. I just needed to get that out....
So... advice to the operators of this forum....
Without many seasoned veterans regularly on this forum, I suggest that the moderators/ owners need to start filling the void with interesting "facts" and not so much opinion.... Some side by side testing, some facts to back-up the opinion.... I have personally stopped responding to some threads as the "opinions" are biased and in some cases completely the opposite of actual tested facts. Like in many forums, one persons opinion is slowly morphed into believed "Fact" as it has been posted so many times by believers without testing or fact.
With the massive flood of new RTF "drones" and individuals new to the market... this forum needs to make a decision on where to focus this forum....
I you want to try and draw back some of the pro users, there needs to be more "pro" content.... Part 107 Discussions, Side by Side motor tests, side by side aircraft tests, articles on new & existing manufacturers and their products, interviews with industry partners...
Finally.... and this is pure opinion.....
I hate the "Drone" label.... It makes me think of a kid in the backyard with a plastic quadcopter....
Small UAS/ sUAS/ Multicopter/ Aerial Video Platform/ Aerial Photography/ Videography..... something that sounds a bit more professional.
Sorry for the rant.. I just needed to get that out....
Av8Chuck
Member
I agree with Andrew, either we're just wrong and the hobby side of this forum is knocking it out of the park, or you need to pivot with the market.
Nothing against the hobbyist, we all started there, but there's no "hobbyist" market. We have become a society where everyone knows how to do everything (hobbyist), but hardly anyone has actually done anything (professional).
Sorry, I really don't want to sound arrogant, but I would like to see this forum become relevant again, and to accomplish that you have to make a choice, a tough choice. Your going to need to take on Facebook. Yep, good luck with that.. It can be done.
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion why people are turning to Facebook, but if you want them to participate here then your going to have to give them a reason. Actually, as Andrew said the reason is pretty clear, people want to discuss what it takes to be successful in the business, not the hobby. What the forums seem to fail to understand is that commercial success has very little to do with the drone itself. People often say it's all about the data but they don't really seem to understand what that means.
If it's about the data then we all need to figure out how to build drones, and their systems, that are open and extensible so that people who need to connect the data that they gather to the right analytical tools, can build purpose built solutions. The drone becomes a platform that operators can build a business on. That's not to say that there aren't still a lot of drone related issues to discuss, but as this industry grows so does the need to understand what it will take to broaden the drones mission profile.
So what does that have to do with taking on Facebook? Well if you agree with any of that, there's an interesting twist to all of this. There is no current market leader in the commercial space. DJI is struggling to gain traction in the commercial market because they are vertically oriented, they are a closed system and they perceive that as thier competitive advantage. But as I pointed out if you believe this about the data, therefore not about the product, then there's no way for them to gain a leadership position because there's no way they will be able to develop all the software and hardware required for every segments purpose built solution. DJI accessories don't work on anything other that DJI products and accessories developed by other developers don't work on DJI drones.
Our best customers are people who purchased a DJI S1000 or M600 and failed to build the solution they needed. Most of the payloads we fly are 5-15 pounds, costs $20K+ and require the integration of all manner of navigational aides, onboard computers and communication that can not be integrated into a closed system like DJI. So the leader in this industry will emerge from a group of self organizing companies that voluntarily work together to provide the tools that enable system integrators, OEM's and resellers to add the necessary functionality to complete their CUTOMERS purpose built solution.
My opinion is that if you want this forum to become relevant again then become the place where those self organizing companies come to work together to discuss building purpose built solutions. Become the conduit for system integrators and OEM's.
Nothing against the hobbyist, we all started there, but there's no "hobbyist" market. We have become a society where everyone knows how to do everything (hobbyist), but hardly anyone has actually done anything (professional).
Sorry, I really don't want to sound arrogant, but I would like to see this forum become relevant again, and to accomplish that you have to make a choice, a tough choice. Your going to need to take on Facebook. Yep, good luck with that.. It can be done.
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion why people are turning to Facebook, but if you want them to participate here then your going to have to give them a reason. Actually, as Andrew said the reason is pretty clear, people want to discuss what it takes to be successful in the business, not the hobby. What the forums seem to fail to understand is that commercial success has very little to do with the drone itself. People often say it's all about the data but they don't really seem to understand what that means.
If it's about the data then we all need to figure out how to build drones, and their systems, that are open and extensible so that people who need to connect the data that they gather to the right analytical tools, can build purpose built solutions. The drone becomes a platform that operators can build a business on. That's not to say that there aren't still a lot of drone related issues to discuss, but as this industry grows so does the need to understand what it will take to broaden the drones mission profile.
So what does that have to do with taking on Facebook? Well if you agree with any of that, there's an interesting twist to all of this. There is no current market leader in the commercial space. DJI is struggling to gain traction in the commercial market because they are vertically oriented, they are a closed system and they perceive that as thier competitive advantage. But as I pointed out if you believe this about the data, therefore not about the product, then there's no way for them to gain a leadership position because there's no way they will be able to develop all the software and hardware required for every segments purpose built solution. DJI accessories don't work on anything other that DJI products and accessories developed by other developers don't work on DJI drones.
Our best customers are people who purchased a DJI S1000 or M600 and failed to build the solution they needed. Most of the payloads we fly are 5-15 pounds, costs $20K+ and require the integration of all manner of navigational aides, onboard computers and communication that can not be integrated into a closed system like DJI. So the leader in this industry will emerge from a group of self organizing companies that voluntarily work together to provide the tools that enable system integrators, OEM's and resellers to add the necessary functionality to complete their CUTOMERS purpose built solution.
My opinion is that if you want this forum to become relevant again then become the place where those self organizing companies come to work together to discuss building purpose built solutions. Become the conduit for system integrators and OEM's.
vinito
Member
I'm an old fart so maybe that explains this, but I still can't see the draw to Facebook. It's a mystery to me. The pages there are more cluttered with garbage I'm not interested in than any of the forums I like to visit, which is why I visit those forums I like.
Seems to me that at least one way to compete with Facebook is staring us right in the face! make it a pleasant interface to navigate. Forums are completely customizeable by the owners, and even to a lesser degree by the users depending on the chosen software. Lay it out to be easier on the eyes and containing the content the users want and that battle is won already. Accruing content is something I have no clue about solving, but that knowledge isn't proprietary to some magic genius I'm sure. There are no doubt thousands of people who know how that can done over time, and one forum only needs one or two "in the know" to figure that out.
I know this ain't any help.
But the issue about having waaay to many headings is something I have absolutely no doubt about.
Seems to me that at least one way to compete with Facebook is staring us right in the face! make it a pleasant interface to navigate. Forums are completely customizeable by the owners, and even to a lesser degree by the users depending on the chosen software. Lay it out to be easier on the eyes and containing the content the users want and that battle is won already. Accruing content is something I have no clue about solving, but that knowledge isn't proprietary to some magic genius I'm sure. There are no doubt thousands of people who know how that can done over time, and one forum only needs one or two "in the know" to figure that out.
I know this ain't any help.
But the issue about having waaay to many headings is something I have absolutely no doubt about.
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Av8Chuck
Member
Me too. I dislike Facebook immensely
The best forums grow organically. Its doesn't really matter the number of different threads or how their divided up as long as they have a real purpose for being there and the purpose is provided by the users. When MRF was first launched it had very few TOPIC's, as the number of unrelated threads started to develop they were then categorized by what people cared about.
What changed it, in part, was the product reviews. They were good, probably the best around. Trouble was that they were so good that SleepC started getting more requests for reviews by hobbyists who were migrating over from RCGroups and it started, over time, to address the hobbyists concerns more then the professionals.
No one likes to be told how to run their business, especially in a forum, particularly when the forum is the business. Bart deserves a lot of credit launching MRF but if there was a place that we disagreed it was that you could be a forum for hobbyists or a forum for professionals, but not both. I believe that every bit as much today as I did then.
If DroneVibes wants to grow this forum, they have to pick a side. And the reason I'm more convinced of that today is because MRF did not pick a side and today it is a fraction of its former self.
I'm not complaining, this is me trying to help...
The best forums grow organically. Its doesn't really matter the number of different threads or how their divided up as long as they have a real purpose for being there and the purpose is provided by the users. When MRF was first launched it had very few TOPIC's, as the number of unrelated threads started to develop they were then categorized by what people cared about.
What changed it, in part, was the product reviews. They were good, probably the best around. Trouble was that they were so good that SleepC started getting more requests for reviews by hobbyists who were migrating over from RCGroups and it started, over time, to address the hobbyists concerns more then the professionals.
No one likes to be told how to run their business, especially in a forum, particularly when the forum is the business. Bart deserves a lot of credit launching MRF but if there was a place that we disagreed it was that you could be a forum for hobbyists or a forum for professionals, but not both. I believe that every bit as much today as I did then.
If DroneVibes wants to grow this forum, they have to pick a side. And the reason I'm more convinced of that today is because MRF did not pick a side and today it is a fraction of its former self.
I'm not complaining, this is me trying to help...