XAircraft SuperX with Y6
- Thread starter Av8Chuck
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Av8Chuck
Member
Thanks. Do you have a preference?
I'd like to build a really stable platform for a GH4 and 3-axis gimbal. Looking at the KDE 3510XF-475, a little less expensive than the KDE 4012XF-400 but the largest recommended props is 15" but it runs on both 4S and 6S - I'm thinking I'd like to standardize on one size motor. On a Hex or Y6 the -475 should provide almost 16lbs of lift and an X8 almost 22lbs.
What do you think of the KDEXF-UAS35 ESC's? They're a bit pricey, do you have any suggestions for alternatives?
There seem to be a few people who have not had good success with SuperX with X8 do you think that's more of a setup issue than a controller issue?
Av8Chuck
Member
Have you or anyone used these ESC's: http://www.quadframe.us/collections/motors-and-propellers/products/dys-esc-40a-simonk
With these Motors: KDE3510XF-475 http://kdedirect.com/KDE3510XF475.html
With 15" props.
Also, SleepyC, if I attach the ESC's to the motor mounts can you run the power down two wires, one positive and one negative and attach both ESC's to them or do I need to run one set of power wires per motor? Theoretically you wouldn't exceed 40A over those wires.
Av8Chuck
Member
Are you flying with ESC's at the end of the booms? If so is there any noticeable difference?
I've noticed a lot more MR's with the ESC on the end of the booms, I've also been watching a friend who built a large OCTO, 23" props, 380KV motors (I think) and CC ESC's on the end of the booms with a DJI A2, it flies really well but it crashes even better.
To me it looks like the props are spread way too far apart and it goes into what I can only describe as this strange oscillation, not like too high a gain, it starts of small and then quickly increases until it toilet bowls into the ground. It looks like the A2 is trying to compensate for something but can't keep up, so is it the A2, is there some sort of power fluctuation because the power leads are so long to the ESC?
Of coarse I don't care about the A2, I'm using the SuperX but I was wondering if you've seen this sort of thing.
I've noticed a lot more MR's with the ESC on the end of the booms, I've also been watching a friend who built a large OCTO, 23" props, 380KV motors (I think) and CC ESC's on the end of the booms with a DJI A2, it flies really well but it crashes even better.
To me it looks like the props are spread way too far apart and it goes into what I can only describe as this strange oscillation, not like too high a gain, it starts of small and then quickly increases until it toilet bowls into the ground. It looks like the A2 is trying to compensate for something but can't keep up, so is it the A2, is there some sort of power fluctuation because the power leads are so long to the ESC?
Of coarse I don't care about the A2, I'm using the SuperX but I was wondering if you've seen this sort of thing.
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
I think size plays a huge roll. when you make a rig bigger the motion of the motors is exemplified.
So if you are spinning large props at slower RPMs the flight control is probably driving itself insane.
With higher RPM motors the flight control sends corrections of maybe 100 - 300 RPM and it levels out the rig, now put that motor 1200 mm away from the other motor, add in 23" props that are only spinning at 2500 RPM's and now the FC says "Speed up 200 RPM's" it's probably going to over compensate.
I think there needs to be a whole new algorithm for the FC's to use in regard to low RPM big prop motors and rigs.
Just my 2 cents.
So if you are spinning large props at slower RPMs the flight control is probably driving itself insane.
With higher RPM motors the flight control sends corrections of maybe 100 - 300 RPM and it levels out the rig, now put that motor 1200 mm away from the other motor, add in 23" props that are only spinning at 2500 RPM's and now the FC says "Speed up 200 RPM's" it's probably going to over compensate.
I think there needs to be a whole new algorithm for the FC's to use in regard to low RPM big prop motors and rigs.
Just my 2 cents.
Av8Chuck
Member
Thanks. I agree.
I'm not sure why these much larger MR's are so popular? Much harder to transport, much heavier and they don't really have that much more payload capability than say a much lighter X8 with 15" props.
I guess its because with the larger props and lower KV motors they can get longer flight times, well at least until it hits the ground.
So you don't think the longer power leads are causing this issue? My booms will be 370mm.
I'm not sure why these much larger MR's are so popular? Much harder to transport, much heavier and they don't really have that much more payload capability than say a much lighter X8 with 15" props.
I guess its because with the larger props and lower KV motors they can get longer flight times, well at least until it hits the ground.
So you don't think the longer power leads are causing this issue? My booms will be 370mm.
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
I hear ya, I'm a BIG quad guy. I love em.
My newest has a lift capacity of 20 - 28 lbs can fly for 14 min,
is only 800mm and swings 18" props... I love it! And I hear the "redundancy" argument all the time.. but meanwhile I've had 300= flights on my other commercial big quad with no issues. Maintenance, and it's no riskier than a octo or hex. cause if you take into account 2x the connections 2 x the equip to fail.. the odds even out. (in my opinion of course)
View attachment 19113
My newest has a lift capacity of 20 - 28 lbs can fly for 14 min,
is only 800mm and swings 18" props... I love it! And I hear the "redundancy" argument all the time.. but meanwhile I've had 300= flights on my other commercial big quad with no issues. Maintenance, and it's no riskier than a octo or hex. cause if you take into account 2x the connections 2 x the equip to fail.. the odds even out. (in my opinion of course)
View attachment 19113
Attachments
Av8Chuck
Member
Wow that's nice. Its also the reason I keep waffling on my decision. I really like how my SX quad flies but I keep gravitating towards an X8 because of the "idea" of redundancy. A well built quad just seems so much simpler to diagnose, tune and just easier overall.
What lens is in your GH4/4? What brand props are you using? And what motors and ESC's? The one decision I have made is to go with KDE motors so I'm trying to figure out comparable motors.
What lens is in your GH4/4? What brand props are you using? And what motors and ESC's? The one decision I have made is to go with KDE motors so I'm trying to figure out comparable motors.
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
KDE's rock. I have them (380KV) on my other big quad swinging 18" props.
On this guy it's a Zenmuse GH3 with the [FONT=arial, sans-serif]OLYMPUS M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12mm f2.0. I have the T-Motor U7's with the T-Motor 80 amp sec's on here.
They run hot, but I am told this is normal, and that the ESC's have a heat sink built in. The rig is on an A2 and is VERY smooth (so far)
I also have a X8 running a super X, FLYS great!' I'm testing some U5 clones with T-motor 45amp ESC's on that ones with 15/5 on the top and 16/5 on the bottom.
[/FONT]View attachment 19114
On this guy it's a Zenmuse GH3 with the [FONT=arial, sans-serif]OLYMPUS M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12mm f2.0. I have the T-Motor U7's with the T-Motor 80 amp sec's on here.
They run hot, but I am told this is normal, and that the ESC's have a heat sink built in. The rig is on an A2 and is VERY smooth (so far)
I also have a X8 running a super X, FLYS great!' I'm testing some U5 clones with T-motor 45amp ESC's on that ones with 15/5 on the top and 16/5 on the bottom.
[/FONT]View attachment 19114
Attachments
Av8Chuck
Member
I want your life...
What brand props are those. The reason I keep asking is because of this post #173 - igor88: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2133373&page=12
Prop efficiency 15": T-motors 15x5V2 vs Tarot 2812
Received 6 pairs of Tarot 2812 props. Get it from Range video. Paid 80$ for props and 56$ for tax and shipping. So, props were really cheap. And not only that they are cheap, but they also look like really cheap. They look like thin fragile plastic that easily bends and is only painted to look like carbon.
Must say that I already had Tarot 2831 prop and I know that they are good for nothing.
T-motor props on the other hand cost some 100$ 1 pair. They are known for extra efficiency and extra quality. Looks excellent. Nice packaging. Everything top. Far away better than any competitor.
Comparison:
Made several tests - hovering, flying with 4 and 12 m/s speed. Flew under a considerable wind and with no wind at all. Did everything.
Well total surprise.
Hovering - tarot 2812 is 1.5 to 2.5 % more efficient
Flying - tarot 2812 is up to 4 % more efficient
Wind resistance - tarot is better (not much but still noticeable)
Jello - tarot a little bit. T-motor zero. We will see after balancing the tarot prop.
And at the end Tarot is also quieter.
And than at the end - prop balance out of the box - not bad at all. (watch video)
Conclusion:
Tarot 2812 - clear winner of all 15" props in terms of efficiency.
And cheap.
My new prop.
Damit, thats a great looking X8. Trying to decide between quad and X8 -- talk about first world problems...
What brand props are those. The reason I keep asking is because of this post #173 - igor88: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2133373&page=12
Prop efficiency 15": T-motors 15x5V2 vs Tarot 2812
Received 6 pairs of Tarot 2812 props. Get it from Range video. Paid 80$ for props and 56$ for tax and shipping. So, props were really cheap. And not only that they are cheap, but they also look like really cheap. They look like thin fragile plastic that easily bends and is only painted to look like carbon.
Must say that I already had Tarot 2831 prop and I know that they are good for nothing.
T-motor props on the other hand cost some 100$ 1 pair. They are known for extra efficiency and extra quality. Looks excellent. Nice packaging. Everything top. Far away better than any competitor.
Comparison:
Made several tests - hovering, flying with 4 and 12 m/s speed. Flew under a considerable wind and with no wind at all. Did everything.
Well total surprise.
Hovering - tarot 2812 is 1.5 to 2.5 % more efficient
Flying - tarot 2812 is up to 4 % more efficient
Wind resistance - tarot is better (not much but still noticeable)
Jello - tarot a little bit. T-motor zero. We will see after balancing the tarot prop.
And at the end Tarot is also quieter.
And than at the end - prop balance out of the box - not bad at all. (watch video)
Conclusion:
Tarot 2812 - clear winner of all 15" props in terms of efficiency.
And cheap.
My new prop.
Damit, thats a great looking X8. Trying to decide between quad and X8 -- talk about first world problems...
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
Funny part is, it's a lot of work. I have my personal rigs that I use for my commercial business and then I have my RCG work rigs that are used for testing. And to be honest, as much as I love all of this, keeping my commercial rigs flying properly is time consuming, but them constantly rebuilding other rigs to test equipment can be insanely stressful. And it's NON stop. I mean I have used 2000+ zip ties and 200 feet of soldier in the past 6 months!
Again, I'm not complaining, but it can be stressful!
Av8Chuck
Member
Has anyone used these ESC's with the SuperX and KDE2814-515?
http://www.quadframe.us/collections/motors-and-propellers/products/dys-esc-40a-simonk
http://www.quadframe.us/collections/motors-and-propellers/products/dys-esc-40a-simonk
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