Noob with unresponsive ESC's/motors using WKM

[blotto649]

Hello multi-rotor lovers, I'm a newbie just wrapping up my first build and all has been good up until this problem which I just can't figure out. Hoping someone can help...

First, the kit

Droidworx SJ-6 frame
Wookong-M w/WKM Assistant (for Mac), everything on the latest software version
Plettenburg 15-20 motors
E-Flite 80A PRo V2 ESC's
Spektrum DX8/AR8000 Tx/Rx

In getting all the programming set up right, I've programmed each of the ESC's independently direct through the AR8000 and can confirm that all spin up on their own without the WKM in the chain. All Tx setup in the WKM app also came out well - joystick readings, compass and IMU settings, etc.

My trouble is coming from the motors - motor test through the WKM app does nothing, and all attempts with arming them via CSC when disconnected from the app fail - no action. LED activity from the WKM is normal, and upon power up of the system the ESC's beep correctly to notify of 6S Lipo, but there is a secondary chime to notify of "armed and ready" that I never hear when ESC's are connected through the Wookong. Any ideas?

Cheers!

 

[gtranquilla]

Speculating....
In addition to the configuration of all the ESCs parameters such a battery type, Cutoff voltage, Brake, Timing, Start-up mode, you also need to fix the throttle range limits of 0% and 100% using the throttle stick on your RC xmitter. Otherwise the ESCs don't know how to gauge their throttle position correctly and/or the speed hunts up and down when throttle is left in one position. WKM would not know how to handle that situation. But I never moved beyond WKM fw version 5.2 and remained with a PC using MS 7 OS.

 

[Quinton]

Have you also tried calibrating your transmitter in the software and doing compass calibration as it may not start if this has not been done.
Are you certain your LED is showing normal status?

 

[blotto649]

Thanks to you both for the insight. I didn't set specific throttle range limits when programming each ESC, but again, all motors spin well when ESC is wired directly through the Rx.

Quinton, Tx calibration all looks good in the WKM Assistant. One question on that, though - is it necessary to reach +-1000 at the top and bottom of the scale? Most settings will only make it to +-997/998, but I'm assuming this is good enough, though I was wondering if it's a must to hit 1000 to get the CSC to work properly. I haven't finished calibration of the compass yet, but LED is telling me there is satellite connection in GPS mode (<5) - I figure that in full manual mode, compass should be ignored anyway. Again, the part that's most boggling is that I can't even get Motor Test to work, and I figure that should activate regardless of set-up of the rest of the system.

Today I will try re-programming each ESC with throttle limits and see what that does. Thanks again!

 

[gtranquilla]

Here is why setting ESC throttle limits is so critical IMHO:
1) Turnigy Plush ESCs will allow motor speeds to oscillate up and down when the throttle joystick is left in one position during ground and flight testing.
2) Turnigy Multistar ESCs do not show this tendency, but when MR lands, some of the motors idle up again causing the MR to flip over.

My MR flipped after landing as per item 2.... but when I reconfigured each individual ESC directly thru my RC Rx, bypassing my FC, so as to set the zero speed and the full speed settings, then reconnected FC and flew again, the MR landed c/w all motors shutting down appropriately. Configuration of the throttle range from without DJI Assistant is not the same thing as ESC throttle range calibration!

Skipping this speed range calibration might also be one possible reason for the fly-aways although that cannot explain why the DJI RTF or ARF kits would do that.

Thanks to you both for the insight. I didn't set specific throttle range limits when programming each ESC, but again, all motors spin well when ESC is wired directly through the Rx.

Quinton, Tx calibration all looks good in the WKM Assistant. One question on that, though - is it necessary to reach +-1000 at the top and bottom of the scale? Most settings will only make it to +-997/998, but I'm assuming this is good enough, though I was wondering if it's a must to hit 1000 to get the CSC to work properly. I haven't finished calibration of the compass yet, but LED is telling me there is satellite connection in GPS mode (<5) - I figure that in full manual mode, compass should be ignored anyway. Again, the part that's most boggling is that I can't even get Motor Test to work, and I figure that should activate regardless of set-up of the rest of the system.

Today I will try re-programming each ESC with throttle limits and see what that does. Thanks again!

 

[blotto649]

After fiddling with some more ESC programming, still no change, unfortunately. There are no specific instructions for the E-flite ESC's to set throttle limits, only 2 options to set throttle range between 1.2ms-1.8ms (default) or 1.1ms-1.9ms. I decided to try the wider range, but it didn't fix anything.

Is it possible that these ESC's are not compatible with the Wookong-M? I'm starting to wonder if the motor bus hardware of the controller is faulty.

 

[gtranquilla]

You must use OPT type ESCs or if ESCs have BEC, the power wire must be removed so it does not send power into the WKM FC.
Likewise to your E-flite instructions, the Turnigy Multistar ESCs did not have any instructions as to fixing the throttle 0 thru 100% range limits.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uploads/809043064X351363X29.pdf see programming ESC with Xmitter.

So I followed the specific instructions for the Turnigy Plush ESCs which specified to connect each ESC directly to the throttle channel of the RC Rx, then put the RC Xmitter throttle stick to 100% before powering up the receiver, listen for the appropriate beeps, shift xmitter down to 0%, listen for more beeps and you are done. It may also be possible to configure all 4, 6 or 8 ESCs simply by using a common servo connector harness and connecting directly to one of these so as to eliminate the need for the radio system entirely.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8296__Turnigy_Servo_Tester.html

 

[blotto649]

Thanks gtranquilla for taking the time to help with all this. Spent a few more hours today with the ESC's and I'm still at a roadblock. I've read about the method you described to program most/all ESC's, even if those details aren't in the manual, but trying with the E-flite's doesn't work. You enter programming mode by powering up with the stick up top - 1 long power-up chime, followed by 6 short chimes to match Lipo cells, then finally the "programming mode" chime. When I move the stick to 0 after all that, nothing but silence. FYI, these have BEC, and I've been removing the power wire when plugged into the WKM, then plugging back in for programming through the Rx - that's all clear.

Anyway, no matter what I try, I just can't get the ESC's to arm when plugged into the WKM. I will go straight to them for support and keep you updated. Thanks again you guys!

 

[Cbergen]

Your throttle isn't backwards in the radio setup, is it? If looking at the slider in the assistant program, low throttle should have the slider all the way to the left.

 

[blotto649]

No, my throttle setup is correct. I've heard from 2 independent sources that the E-flite ESC's aren't compatible with the Wookong-M (and Naza) due to refresh rate. This also explains why Motor Test in the setup software wouldn't work either. Anybody want to buy an ESC? :highly_amused:

Your throttle isn't backwards in the radio setup, is it? If looking at the slider in the assistant program, low throttle should have the slider all the way to the left.

 

[cootertwo]

There is something about ESC's that I can't quite understand. I'm having different problems with startup. First, with a KK2.1 board, motors wouldn't start at the same time, erratic. Tried different ESC's, different MC (Naza Lite). Got it down to everything working right when connected straight to throttle of receiver. But when I go through Naza, the startup is way too high rpm. I had the same problem once before, but can't remember what it was. On doing research, I found lots of posts about this or that ESC not working with this or that MC. I'll gladly admit, it's over my head, but I'll keep plugging along. Heck, that's half the fun right? When I get this problem sorted out, I'll just start on another.
Just for the record, on the quad I'm working on now:
Naza Lite
Spider 4 in 1 20a ESC
Sunnysky? "Angel" A2208-7 2600kv motors
3C battery
Spektrum DX8
:tennis:

 

[blotto649]

This sounds like it would have to do with travel midpoint of the ESC - can it be re-programmed with those? From DJI manual...

If you use 3rd party ESCs, please make sure the ESCs travel midpoint is at 1520us. DO NOT use 700us travel midpoint ESC, as it may lead aircraft to fly away or cause injury and damage. After connect ESCs, calibrate ESCs oneby one through the receiver directly before connect them to your MC, Make sure program all of them into Governor off, Break off and Normal Start up to get best experience.

There is something about ESC's that I can't quite understand. I'm having different problems with startup. First, with a KK2.1 board, motors wouldn't start at the same time, erratic. Tried different ESC's, different MC (Naza Lite). Got it down to everything working right when connected straight to throttle of receiver. But when I go through Naza, the startup is way too high rpm. I had the same problem once before, but can't remember what it was. On doing research, I found lots of posts about this or that ESC not working with this or that MC. I'll gladly admit, it's over my head, but I'll keep plugging along. Heck, that's half the fun right? When I get this problem sorted out, I'll just start on another.
Just for the record, on the quad I'm working on now:
Naza Lite
Spider 4 in 1 20a ESC
Sunnysky? "Angel" A2208-7 2600kv motors
3C battery
Spektrum DX8
:tennis:

 

[gtranquilla]

In addition to Blotto's comments, I like to configure each ESC for the Joystick throttle range by bypassing the FC and doing it thru the RC receiver.
I discovered the need to do this when ground testing an MR equipped with Turnigy Plush ESCs.....
the motor speed would randomly shift up and down without any change to the RC throttle stick because the ESCs had no comprehension of 0 speed and 100% speed until forcefully configured.
As an example I don't think the DJI FC Assistant program does ESC range configuration per se..... it just fine tunes the joystick calibration as seen by the FC.

Also because these are VTOL aircraft I try to eliminate or at least minimize the battery protection when programming ESCs.... I do this by selecting the NiXX setting versus the LiXX setting. View attachment 19150

 

[sk8brd]

hey guys any recommendation on timing settings, i'm running plush's and pancakes. i assume high? not much info out there

 

[gtranquilla]

I built a Hex for the Xaircraft with SuperX using Turnigy Plush. I don't recall all the settings but will dig around.
One thing I noticed during ground testing, i.e., MR tied down, was that the motors would spontaneously rev up and down without touching the throttle joystick.
I had to individually configure each ESC by means of a servo tester so that the ESCs could establish both ends of the throttle range.
Booted up ESCs with servo tester on full speed, waited for confirming beeps, then lower servo test speed back to zero, wait for more beeps and that was it.
No more spontaneous speed changes.

But then after about 10 flights my customer's Hex fell from the sky...... never did figure it out.

hey guys any recommendation on timing settings, i'm running plush's and pancakes. i assume high? not much info out there

 

[sk8brd]

thanks gtranquilla, if you could let me know if you find out that would be great.

interesting post from econfly about changing throttle endpoints during calibration, never had issues doing it like you mentioned but maybe something to consider if people are not getting csc even when calibrating the traditional method...http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?17054-2014-best-ESC-at-the-moment/page13

 

[gtranquilla]

I selected timing at: high and that was for Hengli 22 pole pancake style motors.
I have had tremendous success with Turnigy Multistar 45 amp OPT ESCs of several MRs including one I sold many months ago. The customer is still flying it extensively with WooKong M one 5.20 fw
Starting to regret that I ever sold it... although my DJI A2 is still working on my Cinestar 8 after about 20 test flights so far..... just worried a lot about the A2.

thanks gtranquilla, if you could let me know if you find out that would be great.

interesting post from econfly about changing throttle endpoints during calibration, never had issues doing it like you mentioned but maybe something to consider if people are not getting csc even when calibrating the traditional method...http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?17054-2014-best-ESC-at-the-moment/page13