XAircraft Xaircraft ESC questions

[vispaaja]

Xaircraft makes fantastic products (we absolutely love the SuperX!) but to be honest, it's rather difficult to find information about some of their products

We bought a couple of X650 Pro kits and they came with XL30A ESC's. It seems that they are not SimonK flashed? I don't quite understand why they would sell ordinary ESC's as "multirotor" ESC's?

Has anyone flashed their ESC's and which SimonK version is required?

Does anyone know if Xaircraft UltraPWM ESC's are any good? Their website doesn't even mention those, for some reason :upset:. This article suggests that they have an all-in-one UltraPWM board available:

http://www.xaircraft.org/2010/09/xaircraft-x650-difference-between.html

 

[vispaaja]

Took the plastic off. They seem to have a SiLab chip, so SimonK won't work. Would need to try the BLHeli Multi firmware. Any thoughts?

 

[skquad]

Xaircraft makes fantastic products (we absolutely love the SuperX!) but to be honest, it's rather difficult to find information about some of their products

We bought a couple of X650 Pro kits and they came with XL30A ESC's. It seems that they are not SimonK flashed? I don't quite understand why they would sell ordinary ESC's as "multirotor" ESC's?

Has anyone flashed their ESC's and which SimonK version is required?

Does anyone know if Xaircraft UltraPWM ESC's are any good? Their website doesn't even mention those, for some reason :upset:. This article suggests that they have an all-in-one UltraPWM board available:

http://www.xaircraft.org/2010/09/xaircraft-x650-difference-between.html

The ultra PWM esc's are discontinued and are only for the smaller 450 anyway I believe.

The 30amp ones you are referring to (same as the ones I use) are rebadged t-motor. So they are quality esc's running at 400mhz . What issues have you had with them that you feel the need to flash them?

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[karri3nen]

I dont actually. But... no any info about esc's anywhere. I quess We build x650 and those esc's looks same rhan plush ones on blheli data sheet. We flew actually in 30 knot gusts.. one day.....sorry forgot. We work together with Vispaaja. Long day front of computer. But tomorrow need to fresh my memory that is it killer to put 5V from esc's to SuperX. Just had time now to check that those are not opto esc's. Anyway all info about esc's is somewhere under the rocks :/

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[Electro 2]

Hobby Wings, you can see the "HWI" mark on the PC board. The largest maker of ESCs out there, they private label for hundreds of vendors. The Hobby King "Plush" ESCs I use are Hobby Wings, too.

 

[rwilabee]

I have flown multi rotors with flashed Simon K and non Flashed and to tell you the truth unless you are doing aerobatics with your multi rotor you won't know the difference.

Rich

 

[karri3nen]

Sorry my messy reply to this topic! Main thing is now, that, there is no ANY Good info about Xaircraft esc´s on x650 package. That´s the main problem here. We are here in Finland the first ones to fly these quality hero3 copter´s and we just try to help finnish distributor HIS future "x650 pro" customer´s. So decent info about esc´s:
- Why You can´t throttle calibrate them? (We didn´s luckily, even it is normal and simonK esc´s standard procedure, when working with multicopter´s)
- Should red esc 5V power be removed from superX brains? (Also normal procedure, that barains dont get mad.
- Package flies no problem, I am satisfied for that and waiting to Stella just arrive.
- X650 pro with electrics on BNF is ready package and should have proper manual.

There is no any info about esc´s on manual and just for example if there comes some issue with esc´s We don´t have now any clue to for to make setup´s right. This is not problem for me, but trying here Just help best I can to this hi end product here in Finland.
So Thanks if We/I (Vispaaja ) could get proper info and truth from somewhere. Peace !

I hope this was more proper finnish "rally english" than my last reply !

 

[skquad]

Sorry my messy reply to this topic! Main thing is now, that, there is no ANY Good info about Xaircraft esc´s on x650 package. That´s the main problem here. We are here in Finland the first ones to fly these quality hero3 copter´s and we just try to help finnish distributor HIS future "x650 pro" customer´s. So decent info about esc´s:
- Why You can´t throttle calibrate them? (We didn´s luckily, even it is normal and simonK esc´s standard procedure, when working with multicopter´s)
- Should red esc 5V power be removed from superX brains? (Also normal procedure, that barains dont get mad.
- Package flies no problem, I am satisfied for that and waiting to Stella just arrive.
- X650 pro with electrics on BNF is ready package and should have proper manual.

There is no any info about esc´s on manual and just for example if there comes some issue with esc´s We don´t have now any clue to for to make setup´s right. This is not problem for me, but trying here Just help best I can to this hi end product here in Finland.
So Thanks if We/I (Vispaaja ) could get proper info and truth from somewhere. Peace !

I hope this was more proper finnish "rally english" than my last reply !

- You can throttle calibrate them, but you don't need to.
- You do not need to remove the red wire from the ESC bec when connecting to SuperX IO Module.
- I have read that the XAircraft ESC's use a chip which cannot be flashed with SimonK, apparently you can use BLHeli - but why? like rwilabee has stated unless you're doing acro/3d (which you will not with SuperX) then there is no benefit with flashing.

If you need more precise info on any of the XAircraft products, you can contact Anthony at international@xaircraft.com.

 

[vispaaja]

Hobby Wings, you can see the "HWI" mark on the PC board.

Thanks, nice observation

I contacted Xaircraft and they responded quickly to my email. Great customer support! Those are rebranded T-Motor ESC's (Probably made by Hobby Wings as you said). http://www.rctigermotor.com/html/2013/esc_0916/83.html

What issues have you had with them that you feel the need to flash them?

The X650 was quite wobbly in windy conditions, though not unflyable. Maybe a bit more wobbly than I usually have witnessed with flashed ESC's, so that's why I wanted to know which ESC's they are. Which manual gains are you guys using with SuperX and stock setup?

I have flown multi rotors with flashed Simon K and non Flashed and to tell you the truth unless you are doing aerobatics with your multi rotor you won't know the difference.

Have you compared Xaircraft and SimonK flashed ESC's? If there is no difference between them, that's good news

I think it depends on which ESC's you compare. Ordinary slow refresh-rate ESC's do not work as well as flashed ESC's, you can really see the difference those make in heavy-lift setups with a camera gimbal payload. My 6kg (13lbs) hexacopter was scary to fly in gusty wind with stock Maytech 40A ESC's until I flashed them with SimonK. That allowed me to douple the gains up to normal values without getting any oscillations. It's really the same issue with single rotor helicopters, it's not possible to get a good tail grip with a slow tail servo since the gyro won't be able to correct fast enough. Normal helicopter ESC's modify the control signal and don't have a linear throttle response, so they are not very good for multicopter use.

I just wish the Stella's would arrive already

 

[karri3nen]

- You can throttle calibrate them, but you don't need to.
- You do not need to remove the red wire from the ESC bec when connecting to SuperX IO Module.
- I have read that the XAircraft ESC's use a chip which cannot be flashed with SimonK, apparently you can use BLHeli - but why? like rwilabee has stated unless you're doing acro/3d (which you will not with SuperX) then there is no benefit with flashing.

If you need more precise info on any of the XAircraft products, you can contact Anthony at international@xaircraft.com.

Big thanks! for fast info I just needed !

I dont see any need to flash my esc´s. I am satisfied till any possible problems.

Sorry, one thing more from manual, then I am done about this ? :
"Xaircraft 30A esc:s can be used other normal aircrafts"- this is in manual?
Any info, the firmware programming thru stick for that purpose?
If these esc´s are actually Tiger esc´s. I want to plays song´s with my esc`s !
Just asking..

But now I got all nessesary info for package buyers. Cheers!

 

[RTRyder]

I have flown multi rotors with flashed Simon K and non Flashed and to tell you the truth unless you are doing aerobatics with your multi rotor you won't know the difference.

Rich

I disagree, the reflashed ESCs are much smoother regardless of how you fly. They are especially useful on large APV frames since the throttle response is not only quicker but also a lot more linear. The unnecessary throttle filtering put in the factory firmware to prevent fast motor spool up from breaking gears on RC helis, cars, and trucks is removed so the controllers can speed up and slow down the motors much faster than with standard firmware. What that does is allow the stabilization commands from the flight controller to be passed thru to the motors that much quicker so they can respond faster and the end result is smoother flight especially in windy conditions.

When the DJI Wookong-M was first released there was a big problem with stability on large frames carrying heavy loads, the entire rig would wobble quite badly in windy conditions. One fix was to swap to much smaller props than would normally be used and that helped but things didn't improve all that much until ESCs with SimonK firmware were installed, then the difference in stability became very apparent.

If you fly in mostly calm conditions with lightly loaded frames you may not notice the difference between factory firmware and SimonK/BLHeli since the ESCs can adequately cope with the slower response factor, but as the size and weight of the frame increase along with the wind the difference in smoothness and stability can easily be seen.

Ken

 

[RTRyder]

Thanks, nice observation


The X650 was quite wobbly in windy conditions, though not unflyable. Maybe a bit more wobbly than I usually have witnessed with flashed ESC's, so that's why I wanted to know which ESC's they are. Which manual gains are you guys using with SuperX and stock setup?

Your observations are correct, flashed ESCs are definitely much smoother in windy conditions than factory firmware. The reason why is the factory tries to account for all possible ways the ESC might be used and programs the firmware accordingly. While that works well in many cases it isn't the optimum configuration for use on multirotors which is why there is SimonK and BLHeli firmware.

ESC manufacturers are only now starting to see the need for Mutltirotor specific ESCs, you can see that by the number of brand name ESCs that can now be purchased with SimonK already loaded on them as well as M/R specific ESCs being sold not only by HobbyKing under the Multistar label but also higher end manufacturers like Castle that has recently released a multirotor specific line of ESCs.

If the original factory firmware worked as well as SimonK/BLHeli then we wouldn't be seeing ESCs being sold with third party firmware already loaded and there wouldn't be any multirotor specific brands being developed and brought to market, so obviously even the manufacturers understand that there is a significant difference in how multirotor specific firmware works and there are benefits to be gained from using it.

Ken

 

[Av8Chuck]

What are BLHeli flashed ESC's?

 

[RTRyder]

What are BLHeli flashed ESC's?

A lot of the Chinese ESCs have stopped using the older Atmel processors and switched over the newer design Silabs chips. BLHeli firmware was first developed to be the "SimonK" alternative for Silabs based ESCs since the code for Atmel won't run on a Silabs chip. Initially the BLHeli was more RC Helicopter focused, giving the Silabs based ESCs tuning options that the factory firmware just didn't provide similar to what Simon Kirby had done for Atmel based ESCs. Eventually as the popularity of the SimonK firmware grew, the BLHeli guys added multirotor specific tuning options to their code allowing Silabs based ESCs to be utilized as M/R specific ESCs just as SimonK did for the Atmel versions.

With the most recent version of BLHeli they have ported the code to run on Atmel chips so now you can load it on ESCs that up to now have only been able to be reflashed with SimonK firmware. IMO the BLHeli firmware is superior to the SimonK for a few reasons, first it has a very broad range of tuning options, second it is developed by more than one person is generally fairly well tested before being released for general use, and third there is a very nice GUI that is used to set the parameters and then upload the code to the ESC. In the world of SimonK firmware if you want to change settings you need to download the source code, make the changes in the actual code for the particular ESC, then compile it into a hex file that you would then upload to the ESC. Bottom line is you need to be somewhat software savvy to change settings with SimonK firmware whereas it's quite easy to change the configuration with BLHeli and then send to the ESC. Once you have loaded the BLHeli for the first time you can connect to the ESC over the servo cable, read in the current settings, make changes, and then send the new settings to the ESC. While SimonK has a bootloader that allows updates over the servo cable after the initial install, the only thing you can do is upload the compiled hex file over it so it's a much more complicated process to make changes either before or after reflashing the ESC.

Ken

 

[Av8Chuck]

Can you get good OPTO ESC's with the BLHeli already loaded like the SimonK? I tried flashing an ESC with SimonK and didn't much care for the experience.

 

[RTRyder]

Can you get good OPTO ESC's with the BLHeli already loaded like the SimonK? I tried flashing an ESC with SimonK and didn't much care for the experience.

Unfortunately none that I'm aware of that come with BLHeli preloaded, only SimonK.

Ken

 

[vispaaja]

Good info RTRyder!


I test-flew my X650 with Xaircraft XL30A and Hobbywing 30A (flashed with SimonK) ESC's and I could see a difference in stability. With SimonK there was less swaying and oscillations. Xaircraft ESC's seemed to be slower to respond.

However, when I got back from the field I noticed that motor mounts were slightly off alignment. I aligned them perfectly and tried again today and it definitely improved stability, Xaircraft ESC's worked surprisingly well even in windy weather! So, if using slower ESC's, make sure to double check the motor alignment .

During SimonK ESC testing, one of the motors lost sync in flight (fortunately near the ground! ). I bench-tested this later and it seems that SimonK isn't compatible with these motors. Or at least my ESC's and SimonK FW version are not. Has anyone flew these motors with SimonK without issues?

I'll fly with Xaircraft ESC's until I find compatible SimonK ESC's or have time to try the BLHeli firmware!


Thanks for the info!

 

[Scott Drysdale]

There is no reason to believe that ESCs that are programmable with SimonK will be safe for your MR.....especially for the newer pancake style motors including Tiger-Motors where SimonK has been the culprit leading to a number of crashes.

Xaircraft makes fantastic products (we absolutely love the SuperX!) but to be honest, it's rather difficult to find information about some of their products

We bought a couple of X650 Pro kits and they came with XL30A ESC's. It seems that they are not SimonK flashed? I don't quite understand why they would sell ordinary ESC's as "multirotor" ESC's?

Has anyone flashed their ESC's and which SimonK version is required?

Does anyone know if Xaircraft UltraPWM ESC's are any good? Their website doesn't even mention those, for some reason :upset:. This article suggests that they have an all-in-one UltraPWM board available:

http://www.xaircraft.org/2010/09/xaircraft-x650-difference-between.html

 

[Scott Drysdale]

I am assisting a friend with his Xaircraft SuperX..on his Hex which is 6S with Hengli 6S motors... It has Turnigy Plush 40A ESCs which I have just programmed and removed the "+" red power lead from each of the servo plugs....... All seems to work well now but I noticed that the motors continue to rev up a bit even at low throttle. So I am wondering what the following term means "UltraPWM"...... as selectable within the SuperX configuration software (see photo). Also this is how I configured the ESCs:
Brake off,
Battery = NiXX (enables a lower LVC setting for MRs)
Cut-off type = soft
Cut off voltage = low (or zero for Nixx)
Start mode = Normal
Timing Mode = High
Li_Po cells manually set to 6S
Governor "Off"

Are others experiencing gradual motor rpm increase even with the throttle left in a low position?

 

[skquad]

PWM refers to an older esc xaircraft used to sell. Not valid for your esc's. Re I if the passive wire had no effect on xaircraft as the positive pin is not connected to anything for motor outputs (except 7 and 8 which double as gimbal servo control).

I would recalibrate the esc's.

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