Throttle difference ? ATT vs GPS vs Manual Mode ???

[plasticjoe]

I've been flying my F550 for about 2 months now. I just installed the GPS add on to it and have the Compass calibrated.... the failsafe and RTH set.... and all is going good with it. The one problem I am having is this.... when I am flying it... it seems that in GPS and Atti modes... I spend most of my time at 3/4 to full stick to just hold altitude. If I flip it into Manual Mode... it "jets" up into the air like a rocket ! I could be hovering at full stick in ATTI and slightly losing altitude... and then flip the manual mode... and it shoots up like it's a new fresh pack.
It flew this way before I added the GPS. I am just wondering if this is My setup is this... Any input would be appreciated


Pitch 170
Roll 170
Yaw 150
Vertical 140

Attitude 170 170
2 motor Idle Speed ? ( not sure what that is) it's set at RECOMMAND
Low voltage first level.... 14.7 loaded
Low Voltage second level ... 14.1 loaded

DX8
AR7000
4s 4000 turnigy 30-40c
Stock DJI Motors
Stock DJI30 amp ESCs
10" gemfan props

 

[bordhead]

bump up your vertical gains to 170.
then you may want to bring the att gains down a bit

 

[Tahoe Ed]

I would move to 8" or 9" props I think that you may be over propped so that the Naza cannot make the necessary altitude adjustments at anything but almost full throttle. Second you need to adjust you throttle curve for manual so that you do not get the altitude jump when you switch modes. The Naza should compensate and allow you to hover at approximately 50% throttle. What is your AUW? You may have a problem with your Baro sensor. Show us where you have mounted your components.

 

[plasticjoe]

If I am overpropped... shouldn't the motors and esc's get hot ? ESC's aren't even warm and the motors are barely even warm. I am landing with about 50% of the pack left and no ability to fly more in atti or gps mode... but if I flipped to manual mode... I could fly another 3 minutes if I wanted to go to about 30% remaining. The AUW is whatever a stock Flamewheel with GPS and 4cell battery is... with a set of gothelirc legs on it ) I'll get some pics of it and see if I can get it weighed today. I know a throttle curve adjustment would remove the sudden jump and increase in RPM's .... but how would that affect the GPS and ATTI modes ? I'm curious... a naza newbie here
thanks for the input

 

[araines2750]

I am a bit confused by the original post.
If it is hovering at 3/4 stick in ATT ot GPS ATT than it sounds very overloaded.
ATT & GPS ATT usually always hover right at 50%. The FC is using it's "magic" to maintain altitude.
The test we use to verify thrust / weight is as follows:

1. Hover in ATT or GPS ATT with throttle exactly at 50%. Have it about 15 meters above the ground.
2. Switch to manual mode. Do not change the 50% throttle setting. Warning...If it is overloaded, it will fall like a rock. If it is overpropped, it will take off like a rocket. Be prepared to either take control in manual or switch back to ATT or GPS ATT to regain control.
I have seen posts by many that are at close to 60% in manual. While it will fly, it is overweight & unstable. It is using too much of it's power reserve to just stay in the air. I am sure there are many who would disagree with me, as this is a "hot" topic and very subjective, but all of our tests have confirmed that a craft beyond 54-55% at Manual hover is pushing the limits. Additionally, for those using all three modes, the aircraft will behave irratic between modes which can pose a greater risk of pilot error in response to the unexpected throttle responses.
There is much more to really determining props/ motors & weights than this, but it is a simple ballpark test.

Andrew

 

[plasticjoe]

OK.... I have some 8" props I'll give it a shot with..... If "overpropping" causes the big jump from atti to manual... then I'll prop down from the 10" props and see what happens. Would that increase my throttle response in ATTI and GPS modes then ? Just using my airplane experiences with overpropping and that does not apply in the multirotor world

 

[kloner]

you might be slightly misunderstanding the multi rotor tuning there recomending. You want the heli to hover mid stick in manual, when that is achieved the naza can increase and decrease throttle with authority.......

IF altitude hold isn't working but it is propped right, it has something to do with calibrating your radio to naza. When you calibrate and before you hit finish, you want the throttle set to mid stick. That shows atti where mid stick is

 

[Emowillcox]

Hey Plastic i'll be curious what you find out because I had the same problem with my Naza. I had it flying last summer just fine then I had a problem with a motor that caused it to crash. So I had to rebuild it. I switched out the motor and put new speed controllers on and had to reset up the programing. When I went to fly it I noticed the same thing that in att mode I had to really get into the throttle stick for it to take off like it barely had any power. Then I switched to manual mode while I was flying and it took off like a rocket... like it did before I had crashed it. I am running 12x3.8 props which are the same props I used before the crash. So I am not sure its the props. I thought it had to something with the settings.

 

[Emowillcox]

Kloner do you mean you want the throttle slider set to the middle or you want the stick on your radio set to the middle?

 

[Nuttzzy]

should i do the prop overload size test before i dial in all the gains or after?? i would assume before?

 

[plasticjoe]

View attachment 8729View attachment 8728View attachment 8727View attachment 8726View attachment 8725ok have the 9 inch props balanced and installed... and the gains adjusted and the Naza checked on calibration that when I clicked "write" that my throttle stick was at 50%
will give it a try tomorrow weather willing.
Also here are pics of my hexa.

 

[SMP]

Trying to educate myself; what are the impacts of being over propped? On the downside, runs the motors/electronics harder/hotter than necessary?? Are there any advantages to being over-propped?

 

[kloner]

It makes it unstable if the props too big for the load. a flight controller expects to get absolute control of a motor, if it's propped high it's like leaving a stop light in second gear...... underpropped is like going down the freeway in second gear, mash the throttle and no real response. propped just right the motor can find it's idle and can go up and down in rpm easily... the other day i purposly went out over propped and had a hell of a time getting the dam thing down. almost had to shut off to loose altitude

 

[helloman1976]

I've been flying my F550 for about 2 months now. I just installed the GPS add on to it and have the Compass calibrated.... the failsafe and RTH set.... and all is going good with it. The one problem I am having is this.... when I am flying it... it seems that in GPS and Atti modes... I spend most of my time at 3/4 to full stick to just hold altitude. If I flip it into Manual Mode... it "jets" up into the air like a rocket ! I could be hovering at full stick in ATTI and slightly losing altitude... and then flip the manual mode... and it shoots up like it's a new fresh pack.
It flew this way before I added the GPS. I am just wondering if this is My setup is this... Any input would be appreciated


Pitch 170
Roll 170
Yaw 150
Vertical 140

Attitude 170 170
2 motor Idle Speed ? ( not sure what that is) it's set at RECOMMAND
Low voltage first level.... 14.7 loaded
Low Voltage second level ... 14.1 loaded

DX8
AR7000
4s 4000 turnigy 30-40c
Stock DJI Motors
Stock DJI30 amp ESCs
10" gemfan props

Bring down your attitude control, bring up your vertical gain and then when you do that follow this process. Your idle motor speed sets the lowest speed your motors will go. If you have slow spinning motors and set a low idle speed in the Naza controller then you'll have to raise your throttle WAYYY up to just take off. I have 750Kv motors on mine and it's set to fast, I hover at 50% almost exactly. Also, if your battery RED ZONE levels are set too high you'll get this effect as the Naza tries to "land for safety". For example, if you set your battery red zone safety level to 20V (extreme example) and you're using 4S battery packs your Naza will always try to land for "safety". Check it out and see what you find...those things should all but solve your issues I would think.

 

[Nuttzzy]

It makes it unstable if the props too big for the load. a flight controller expects to get absolute control of a motor, if it's propped high it's like leaving a stop light in second gear...... underpropped is like going down the freeway in second gear, mash the throttle and no real response. propped just right the motor can find it's idle and can go up and down in rpm easily... the other day i purposly went out over propped and had a hell of a time getting the dam thing down. almost had to shut off to loose altitude

Think I might me over propped. Batt Gopro and immersion RC FPV system all I got. I've shut the motors off so many times in manual trying to come down. And when fail safe the Naza takes FOR-EV-VER to land you can hear it slow down to almost nothing and still not coming down. Could the over prop contribute to the bumpy RTH landing?? Naza doesn't know what to cant slow down that much??


Beep, Beep, Honk, Honk, Over and Out Rotorhead

 

[helloman1976]

Think I might me over propped. Batt Gopro and immersion RC FPV system all I got. I've shut the motors off so many times in manual trying to come down. And when fail safe the Naza takes FOR-EV-VER to land you can hear it slow down to almost nothing and still not coming down. Could the over prop contribute to the bumpy RTH landing?? Naza doesn't know what to cant slow down that much??


Beep, Beep, Honk, Honk, Over and Out Rotorhead

You probably have your binded throttle set too high on your failsafe settings. I have never setup fail-safe or RTH and it's something I want to setup so I'm by no means the expert but from what I've read when you bind your failsafe receiver whatever you have the throttle at is what it uses. In manual mode you should be able to throttle down unless your TIMING settings are too high. Before you take off, when you are on the ground and in attitude mode, and you start up your motors are they spinning super fast? If so, turn down the motor timing one notch and try it again, that should solve it.

 

[Nuttzzy]

All I did was switch to 8in props. And the craft was Alot more responsive. RTH worked better it accualy descended and everything. Only diffrence in weight was a Gopro. No case or anything just the cam. Sound over propped?


Beep, Beep, Honk, Honk, Over and Out Rotorhead

 

[kloner]

that sounds like your alot more in range. Multi rotors are alot like helicopters, too much pitch will hold ya back and cause problems They are touchy to what you carry, you want to get a normal load on the thing and prop it accordingly. Theres 8", 9", 10" props in all different pitches. my prefrence is the smallest prop that'll carry the load in wind,,,,,,, it is usually 50% +- 5% throttle in a manual non height holding mode

 

[AEMontoya]

I don't mean to resurrect and old thread; but, I've been having some issues with throttling revving when switching to manual mode even during bench testing without props (WKM FW 5.26). I understand that I can set up an individual throttle curve for each flight mode. But, there's something strange going on that I don't understand. If I do CSC in manual mode and then switch to either atti or gps, there's no significant change in motor rpm, regardless of how many times or in what order I switch between the different flight modes. However, if I do CSC in either atti or gps mode, and then switch over to manual mode, there is a significant revving of the motors, and it happens every time I switch over the manual mode. If I switch back to gps or atti, the motors go back to normal rpm. Any ideas about what's going on here?

 

[ZacAttack]

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER IN CONCERN TO YOUR BIRD "JUMPING" WHEN CHANGING INTO MANUAL MODE......You need to adjust your throttle curve....either that or use Throttle Sub-Trim to adjust your throttle so when you switch from GPS to MM or ATT. to MM, you do not get a crazy jump like your getting, put your multicopter in a hover and adjust accordingly until your bird doesn't budge an inch in the air, up or down when changing modes !! It has nothing to do with gain settings and propellers. You cannot bench test this either and expect good results. To the original poster, Your ATTITUDE setting: Way to high 170/170 Lower these. *****Naza compensates the throttle in GPS or ATT mode automatically to hold the multicopter steady, when you switch to MM, your in essence turning off automatic compensation. Again, Adjust your throttle curve or use the Throttle Sub-Trim to obtain desired results......ALSO in MM, your going to notice your Multicopter is very sensitive to stick inputs, this is because you are at a 1:1 ratio in MM, go into your Dual Rate menu (D/R) and move your AIL & ELE down from %100 to %75 and *Add or *Minus Expo. (JR and Futaba) are opposite, I added(JR) %30 Expo to AIL & ELE, leave RUDD(YAW) alone unless you want your bird spinning faster/slower, then increase/decrease this number of %100 to your liking. Adjust your settings in your D/R menu until you have obtained the feeling and performance you like and are comfortable with. Hope this Helps. YOU GETTING ALOT OF REPLYS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PROBLEM!!!